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Do you ever feel awkward selling? Do you struggle with self promotion?

It doesn’t have to be awkward. We’ve got a jam-packed, fast-paced episode to help you boost your confidence, fight fear, learn to research, build trust, and position your prices expertly.

Yes, you need to believe in your product. You must know in your SOUL that what you’re selling is providing value. But there’s so much more than that.

Join us for some great stories and practical tips to help you feel 10X better about marketing your products and selling. You’re guaranteed to get at least several, if not dozens, of insights from this episode.

Highlights, Takeaways, Quick Wins
  • Believe in what you’re selling.
  • Position what you’re selling as an investment, not an expense.
  • Focus on the customer and how you’re enriching their life—that’s where your confidence comes from.
  • Practice your elevator pitch.
  • Remember your product or service is a solution and an investment for the customer, who is ultimately going to get some sort of return from it.
  • Serve people because you genuinely care about solving their problem and they will trust you.
  • The way you think about what you’re selling translates to the way people receive it.
  • Research your competitors to learn how to differentiate yourself.
  • Make yourself an authority in your area by researching.
  • Don’t ask a client for their budget.
Show Notes
  • 01:40 Sean: Do you ever feel awkward selling? Do you struggle with self-promotion? What kind of struggles do you have with selling? This is what we asked the Community, and a lot of people shared their struggles and questions. Matt, do you struggle with selling yourself, promoting yourself, or marketing yourself? Do you feel uncomfortable? Did you ever? How did you overcome that?
  • 02:23 Matt: I don’t now. Over time, you learn how to market yourself better. My old self definitely wasn’t confident enough and didn’t believe in his products or services enough. The number one thing is confidence.

You have to believe in yourself first and in your products or services next.

  • 03:00 If you don’t, you’re going to be shaking the whole time. Your palms will be sweaty, and it’s going to be a nightmare.
  • 03:12 Sean: Believe in what you’re selling. If you only have one takeaway, it’s that you have to believe in what you’re selling. That lack of confidence and feeling gross comes from feeling like you’re doing something you shouldn’t be doing. We all have this picture of a used car salesman. It’s that guy’s job to get you to sign on the dotted line, and that’s it. If you don’t like the product or the customer experience, that’s not his job. His job is to get you to sign and to buy. We feel gross about that, and that’s how we feel about sales and marketing. When you are the person involved in your own marketing, you’ve made the product or you’re delivering the service, you know that what you’re providing is of high quality. You’re operating out of integrity.

Don’t put the focus on yourself.

Put the focus on the customer and how you’re enriching their life, because that’s where your confidence comes from.

Be Confident

  • 04:37 Matt: Think about a bad used car salesman, someone selling used cars who knows something bad is under the hood but is trying to cover it up so they can sell it to you. When you’re selling your products, you know for a fact that under the hood of your product or service, it’s the best it can be. You can go to the customer with confidence and say, “This is a brand new product/service for you, and it’s going to help you.”
  • 05:16 Sean: Matt, you say here, “You need to believe in your gut that your service or product is adding value to your client.”
  • 05:21 Matt: Absolutely. No matter what the price point is on that product or service, you’re adding value to that customer, whether it’s adding a convenience to their life or something that’s going to make them money.
  • 05:36 Sean: That’s where the confidence comes from, knowing what you’re doing is actually adding value to someone. When you focus on the value you’re adding to people, that’s where you get confidence. If you only look inside at how you feel about selling, you’re not going to feel confident. That’s not where your confidence should be coming from.
  • 05:57 Matt: Even if you’re selling flasks or bottles, make sure you’re going to your customer with enthusiasm and say, “Here is something you can hold your liquid in, and it will keep it fresh for however long.” You might think that’s silly, but go beyond the obvious. Explain it to them. “This is going to be gold for this long. It’s sealed, it’s taken care of.”
  • 06:47 Sean: Matt, did you know you can Google anything, and there is all kinds of free education on the internet? A lot of people think you have to pay for it or that it’s not available because they waste a bunch of time. I just typed, “How to sell.” Let’s see what’s out there, what people are talking about! I found several hour-long keynotes from brilliant salesman who have been in the business for decades, and certainly there’s a lot of questionable sleazy stuff that you have to wade through, but there’s also valuable stuff. I can just take away the good stuff.
  • 07:36 This guy was talking about the psychology behind asking for someone’s autograph. There’s a reason they say that, of course. It’s because people are taught, growing up, that we should be averse to signing things. They make this small switch in terminology, saying, “Let me get your okay here, let me get your autograph here, let me take care of the paperwork,” anything but “sign.” People have an averse reaction to it, so there’s a lot of psychology behind that. We’re hesitant about different tactics like that. Matt says, “Make sure you present your product as a solution and an investment, not something that costs money.” This guy was talking about this, and he said, “You don’t want to say the words ‘cost’ or ‘price,’ because people have a reaction to that.” It makes it seem expensive. As soon as you say the word “cost,” people start justifying why it’s too high.

Position what you’re selling as an investment, not an expense.

  • 09:00 Matt: When I was younger, I used to say, “Here’s this thing and here’s the cost,” and I lost customers backwards and forwards. As I got older, I started thinking that I needed to approach the customer from a different perspective. Whatever it is I’m giving them, I’m providing them with value. I’m giving them something that they’re going to get some sort of satisfaction out of. Now, I’m in a totally different game than when I was selling snow cones. When I sold snow cones, I thought, “Yeah, I’m going to make them happy for a few minutes.” They were paying me to get satisfaction out of something, and I had to think of it from that perspective instead of thinking, “Here’s a cup of ice. Have a good day.”
  • 10:04 Instead, I used to think of it as, “Here’s a happy cup.” The kids or parents are going to get a smile out of it, some sort of satisfaction. They’re investing in themselves to get some happiness out of it. As I got older, it became more about how I was adding value for the customer. They’re investing in me to get some bigger value out of whatever it is that I’m giving to them.

Remember that your product or service is a solution and an investment for the customer, who is ultimately going to get some sort of return from it.

  • 11:03 Sean: Practice your elevator pitch over and over and over again. Keep refining it.
  • 11:12 Matt: I didn’t have a community or a network of people like I do now, where I could tell them my elevator pitch and see their reaction. I used to just do it with friends and family. Start that way with your elevator pitch. Explain whatever it is you’re trying to sell, and continue to refine the way you tell them. Based upon their reaction, maybe tweak it. Change the words or explain it a little differently, make it longer or shorter.
  • 11:45 Sean: My favorite thing for the elevator pitch is to tell your whole story, 20 minutes long, to someone, and then have them tell it back in the short version. Say we’re at a bar. I say, “If I left and someone else sat down next to you and asked, ‘What’s that Sean guy all about?’ what would you say?” The way this guy put it was, “It sounds like you’ve had success with client work, products, and teaching, and now you want to help other people do the same.” I thought, “Holy cow! How did you say that? I just spent 20 minutes telling you the whole story.”
  • 12:30 Other people aren’t emotionally wrapped up in it, so they can give you a more objective response. Frame it that way, “What if someone else asked you what I’m about?” It will get that super short really quick, and it’s perfect. That becomes the piece you start with for your elevator pitch. Matt’s notes say, “The only way you’re going to be able to present yourself as an authority is to know what the heck you’re talking about.”
  • 13:09 Matt: Gary Vee always says, “I’m not nervous when I go into a meeting.” People always ask him if he’s nervous to present and whether he prepares, but he says, “No, I practice what I preach. I know exactly what I’m going to say every single day. I don’t have to prepare for something.” You need to get to that point where you’re so confident in whatever it is that you do that you know what you’re talking about. You can breathe and preach whatever it is that you’re selling. You have to know in your gut that whatever it is that you’re selling is the best out there, the best you could put out there.
  • 13:51 Sean: It’s not some hack. “How do I pretend to be confident about something I don’t know?” You don’t! You go learn about it!

Acquire knowledge and source your confidence from that.

Fight Fear

  • 14:25 Matt: Nothing will kill your sale faster than fear. I was listening to a video, and someone was saying, “If you go into a talk or a meeting with a little bit of fear, a little bit unsure about your proposal, you already killed the sale.” In the beginning, I wasn’t convinced on this, but it makes total sense. If you go into a meeting and you’re unsure about what you’re going to propose, people will question about whether you’re an authority or not.
  • 15:09 Sean: When you are selling yourself and marketing your products or services, the way you think about what you’re selling translates big time to the way people receive it. They can tell. They’re perceptive. If you’re fearful, they think, “I should be fearful. There must be something weird about this.”
  • 15:37 Matt: On a lot of jobs, we were the more expensive company to go with, but because I go in there believing in my services and my products, I always go into a meeting ecstatic. “I can’t wait to get started on this project with you, because the outcome is going to be great. I know you’re going to love it.” People automatically see the passion and the excitement behind your efforts. The other guy says, “Yeah, we can do this and that. It’s going to come out like this and that.”

If you’re doing the same thing as your competitors, find a way to differentiate yourself.

  • 16:43 Sean: Maybe that’s your personality. People want to work with someone who’s confident. If the same exact service is offered from different guys, what if something goes wrong? Who do I want to deal with? Who would I rather be on my side? Who would I rather have helping me out and resolving this? Two people could photograph your wedding. You get pictures either way, who cares? What if the photographer formats the card with your wedding pictures? This is the real story of my and my wife’s wedding. Our photographer lost our wedding photos. This was years of pain for Laci. It’s bad news. You don’t lose a bride’s photos.
  • 17:43 I’m not going to give the full story. When you sign up for Value Based Pricing, I send out a series of free videos, and in one of them I give you the full story.. If you want more details on how in the world the photographer lost all the photos, that’s where you’ll find it. The point is, if you’re only focused on the result, what happens if something goes bad? In this case, she had no backups, and she skirted around the issue for two years. She convinced us that they were simply delayed and that there were complications, so we didn’t know for two years that they were actually lost. There are so many angles to think about this from—as someone getting married, being a photographer, making an investment… I want you to think of this by imagining that you are the competitor of this photographer.
  • 18:47 Your client is me, six years ago. I’m thinking, “Cheap photos or expensive photos?” It was a friend and a bad deal, we should have invested. As a photographer, you’re cringing right now. Every wedding you do, you have five backups. You would always be on the ball with communication. You would never lose photos. Guess what? We weren’t thinking this way. What if all of your wedding photos were lost? What is that worth to you? Now, it’s worth thousands to Laci. It was never put in that perspective. The type of person who would be responsible, communicative, and have backups—what is the value of working with a professional, someone who’s confident in what they do?
  • 20:22 Matt: I was trying to think of a story where I was fearful about marketing myself and my business. The first meeting I had with three investors, I think I was 20, I was in San Antonio, and we were at the Pearl Brewery. We were sitting at what looked like a concrete bench. I had two investors in front of me and one right next to me. These were people I met at another big community investor meeting, and we had been talking in passing, and the conversations evolved. They asked if I invested, too, and I said, “I’m starting too.” I hadn’t started yet, so I wanted to get together with them because they had knowledge I needed and they had funds that I needed. I thought, “I have to be creative, because I don’t have the crazy funds that I need. I’m too young. I don’t have credit to go to a bank.”
  • 21:58 I was scared going into this meeting. I didn’t know enough, like I know now. I stepped out of my comfort zone, which is what we have to do to stand out, be different, and excel, so I went into that meeting to ask these guys some questions about getting started in real estate. I was asking them all about their beginning, and I was drilling them. I was shaking, scared. I thought, “What if I’m not talking in the right terminology?” In real estate, there’s all these different terms, this language. I had researched a ton and read a ton of books to try and keep up, because I didn’t want these guys to think that I’m just some young punk trying to get information out of them. I want them to think that I’m at their level, or at least trying. I started asking them questions, and I ended up saying the wrong things. They started to pick up that I was a newbie.
  • 23:11 That’s a bad thing with investors. If they catch on that you’re a newbie, they’re not going to help you get to that next level. I told them my situation and my background, and I took it all the way back to the snow cones and beyond that, where I was now and what I had done. They were interested. As I was telling the story, I could feel my confidence building. I was looking at the things I had done, and I thought, “That worked out. Sales increased. Went from $20 to $200, from $200 to $2,000, and from $2,000 to $20,000.” I felt more confident, so I was finally able to get to the end of the meeting and say, “I selfishly brought everyone together because I would like us all to work together on one small deal. I would like everybody to put up the money for it, and since I don’t have the money to put up for it, I’m going to come along for the learning curve. I’m not going to get anything out of it. I’ll provide my services with my guys for the overhead cost, and that’s it. I’m in it to get the knowledge out of it.”
  • 24:40 One of the guys looked hesitant, one said, “Let’s do it,” and the last said, “I feel like we should make you pay for some part of this.” I couldn’t do it because I didn’t have the money. Because of the fear and how I let it shut down and paralyze me, I didn’t end up working with them on a deal I wanted, which was a really good deal at that point. I was too fearful. I wasn’t confident enough to say, “We can do this. I’m not going to put any money in this deal, but I’ll come with knowledge and some of the workers to help get this deal together.” I let fear shut down that opportunity for me. Later on down the road, we ended up getting back together and doing multiple deals together, but that was a huge turning point for me. Once I figured out that I had to build confidence in myself and believe in myself, then I could go to these meetings with confidence and win them over.

Research Solutions

  • 26:06 Obviously, as you go along, you’re still going to have fear. It’s understandable. How do we get rid of fear as much as possible? We’re still going to have a bit of Scarcity Mindset because we’re human beings. When you take risks, you’re going to get scared. One of the things that really helped me out and that will help you out is knowledge and research. As you research different things, you get more knowledge, and ultimately more confidence. You can push the fear into the closet a lot easier. In the beginning, I was gaining knowledge through books, YouTube videos, and podcasts, but I also started looking at my competitors and what they were doing. In particular, I looked at how they were marketing themselves.
  • 26:50 A lot of them were doing similar things, but some of them were doing different things. I would also look at the cons of their marketing, and I would figure out how I could do that better. I would add that to my pros list, so when I went to the customer, I would expose that flaw. “Contractors in general have this flaw,” I would say. “We provide the solution so this doesn’t happen.” Going back to poor Sean and Laci’s photographer, you would definitely go to them as a professional and say, “We have five, six, seven backups, so just in case something happens with the weather, etc, you’ll have the assurance that the backups will be saved. You don’t have to worry. Your photos will be there.” The other photographer went in saying, “Yeah, we’re going to shoot your photos.” That’s it. There’s no extra insurances, features, or bonuses included in your package to make this price point more valuable to you.
  • 28:15 Sean: Gary Vee talks about how he never looks at the competitors. He says, “I just focus on me.” What do you think of that take vs. being aware of what your competitors are doing and maybe even researching them?
  • 28:28 Matt: I respect what he believes, but I think it’s good to look at your competitors. Your competitor is another human being trying to run a business as well, so hopefully, they’re thinking about what is best for their business. They’re going to come up with things you won’t, so I don’t go into it saying, “I want to beat my competitor,” or, “I don’t care what my competitor is doing.” I go into it to learn. It all comes down to who will provide the best value for the customer. Why are you selling your service or product? You’re trying to provide a solution. I don’t think, as I was taught to think growing up, “Screw the competitor. Don’t ever look at the competitor. Look at their prices, maybe, but that’s it.” I took a step back and thought, “Wait a minute. They’re another human being trying to make a living and solve a problem as well. If they’re in it to do that, then I can learn something about how they present it or some bonuses and insurances they have in their package that help the customer.”
  • 29:40 Sean: I agree with Matt. I think it’s valuable, especially because most good photographers have backups—but if you never research, you might not realize that other people don’t do this. They don’t provide this value, this service, so you could amplify that in your marketing. Once you know that other people don’t have backups and you hear these horror stories, you now know that that’s something you can say, “By the way, I don’t know if you know this, but a lot of other photographers don’t have backups. Terrible story, let me tell you about it, losing wedding photos. I would hate for that to happen to you. Here’s what I do.” Boom.

By researching your competitors, you learn how to differentiate yourself.

  • 30:24 Matt: Look at the pros and cons, not just the pros, of what your competitors are doing, and you tackle and expose those lists. Expose those cons, and you automatically win over the customer. For example, our sod business puts down grass. We do the same thing our competitors do, but we always expose the horror stories about how the grass can die because it’s not taken care of properly. We add different free things into our package to assure the customer that their grass won’t die. If a few pieces do die, it’s free. It’s on us.
  • 31:11 Sean: Matt, do you have an up-sell service? Do you say, “Because it’s young sod, you have to take care of it. This is what you’re going to need to do at two weeks and at four weeks. I know it’s a lot of work, so we have this package. We’ll come by, you don’t have to be home, and we’ll take care of it.” Do you have something like that?
  • 31:38 Matt: We don’t want to go in and sound like salesmen, so we always go in to educate the customer. Automatically, they give you the service. We go in with a Do It Yourself, how to take care of the grass, this little thing that explains about their grass and some directions for how to take care of it right now and then once it matures. Automatically, they say, “You know how to take care of it, right?” You’re explaining what’s on the paper, but more. You’re showing yourself as someone who’s knowledgeable able the grass, because you know how to keep it alive.
  • 32:19 Sean: If this was me, I’d be upset that Matt wasn’t pushing it. If I’m the customer, I don’t want to have to think, “Do I ask him if he could do this or if he knows someone?” If Matt had told me, “Just so you know, we offer this service, so you don’t even have to worry about it,” I would say, “Yes, sign me up!”
  • 32:40 Matt: Nine out of ten times, whenever I’ve been there and we’ve explained the whole thing, they say, “You guys do that, right?” We say, “Yeah, of course.” “Well, let’s get a contract drawn up, and we’ll have you guys take care of it.” I say, “Okay. One of the assistants will email you the contract so you can look it over. Everything we just talked about that you would do, we’ll take care of,” and they don’t care about the price at that point because they just want their grass to live. They want it to look good.
  • 01:33 Sean: What if you already had a sheet ready to go, because it’s a normal, standardized service? You can increase the conversion right there.
  • 33:29 That’s a great example right there. You’re teaching them and empowering them to be able to handle it themselves. You’re not saying, “There are a bunch of tricks you need, and it’s pretty complicated, so you might want to let me take care of it.” You’re teaching them and giving them the opportunity to delegate that and have you do it. That goes a long way toward building trust.
  • 33:55 Matt: I like the approach going in to educate them to do it by themselves. They automatically know that I’m teaching them, so I know what I’m talking about because I’m teaching them to take care of this. I’m not going in there saying, “You’re going to do this, this, this, and this,” making it all complicated to where they can’t understand, and then saying, “Well, you don’t have to worry about that. We’ll take care of it for you. Sign on the dotted line.” Then you’re being a sleazy salesman. Instead, go in to give them value, and don’t expect a return. I guarantee you, nine out of ten times, they’re going to give you that service. We go in to educate them to do it themselves, we do it in an easy manner, and we give them materials and resources, and they say, “You know what you’re talking about, and those are the results I want. You guys guys go ahead and take care of it.”

Build Trust

  • 34:55 Sean: Matt has a note here about being an authority. Does that tie in here, with you teaching them and showing them your expertise?
  • 35:03 Matt: When you’re going in, you should know this stuff backwards and forwards, the best you possibly can. Know your stuff. This goes back to research. Don’t just research on your own, but by looking at your competitors, you’re able to learn a ton that’s going on with them in their business. The conversation you’re having with your customer probably includes gems you picked up from your competitors. Bring that to your customers to educate them, and automatically, your customers think of you as an authority. My cousin came over for the summer to learn about my business, and he joined the sod crew. It was his first day, and the lady said, “Do whatever you think is best. You’re the professional.” He said, “Yes ma’am, I’ll take care of it. I’m the professional.” He walked over to me and said, “I’m going to kill the grass, aren’t I?”
  • 36:13 He knew what he was talking about, because he heard me give five pitches already in that day with five other customers. I let him do the pitch for the lady and educate her, just from the stuff I had said earlier. Automatically, the lady thought he was an authority in the sod business. She thought, “This kid’s going to take care of it, make it green! It will look beautiful.”

Make yourself an authority in your area by researching

People will see you as an authority figure and trust you.

  • 37:06 Sean: Matt’s also got here, “Act genuine. No BS.”
  • 37:11 Matt: Acting genuine is a huge one whenever I’m in front of a customer, especially big clients. A lot of people go in all happy, way overkill, and they come in with what I call “the salesman pitch.” When you go into a meeting with a client, don’t over-polish it. It should be polished enough that it’s taking care of their problem, so it’s a no-brainer for the client to go with you.
  • 37:51 Sean: From what I’ve observed, Matt always seems to build a rapport with people. He establishes common ground and becomes their friend before he’s even selling something.
  • 38:04 Matt: Just in my relationship with Sean, when we first met, I didn’t tell him everything I do. It probably wouldn’t have scared him off, though. You want to build that genuine trust. Whenever I start a project with somebody, I show them our portfolio of existing and completed projects. They look and those and think, “This guy is an authority.” They don’t know that they might only be my third project. We’ve been dabbling in modern design, and we might be on our second one, but people are saying, “Matt’s a modern architect designer!” By building trust, people will automatically be ready to sign on the dotted line.
  • 39:10 Sean: This is my favorite one here. Matt said, “Serve to get people to trust you.”
  • 39:17 Matt: I get in trouble from the accountant and the partners all the time because I’m always providing free services. In the design world, you would put it as free value. I’m giving away free services. They say, “Matt, what are you doing?” I give them the Sean quote, “It’s either free or full price.” They say, “The full price will scare them off,” so I give it to them for free, and they say, “We’re not going to be able to buy the Lambo!” They hate it.

If you serve people because you genuinely care about solving their problem, they will trust you and want to work with you.

  • 40:15 If your price is a little bit higher than they were thinking, they’re going to know that you’ll do the best thing to take care of their problem, because you just did something for free. Don’t give them an okay product for free—give them the best, like if they paid full price for it. If you’re giving something away for free that’s so high quality, they’ll think, “If I didn’t pay for this service and it was this good, what is the full price going to look like?”
  • 40:56 Sean: The trust you built from serving people is your unique advantage. If someone prices lower, the person will say, “But I trust this guy.” It’s not worth the risk to have this go bad to save a buck.
  • 41:14 Matt: Gain the customer’s trust. You can do that easily by just serving them, on top of being a knowledgable authority figure.
  • 41:32 Sean: If you’re feeling sleazy, you might not have built up trust with the person you’re trying to sell to.
  • 41:38 Matt: You’re not doing something right. You need to establish a relationship with your customer. I always go and talk with the customer about their dog, their grandmother, if they took a trip, their shoes, or their car, and it sounds stupid, but people appreciate you taking time out of your sales time to talk about something other than what you’re there to talk about.
  • 42:07 Sean: They know what you’re there to talk about, but the fact that you cared enough to slow down and talk about them makes them feel cared for. They want to trust you. It’s amazing how such practical, nice, humanly things work well in business. People say, “Ooh, little trick. Comment on their shoes.” But this is really about caring about people, serving them, and talking to them. Invest in your customers’ lives, and your business will do great as a result. It’s not a tactic. Be a good person.
  • 42:53 Matt: It’s really simple. People blow it out of proportion because they’re scared or because they were trained to be a sleazy salesman.

Position the Price

  • 43:08 I wasn’t going to put this section on here, because this is something that makes people feel sleazy or awkward at the end of a sale. I did put it in here, because this is something we all need to remember. It’s beyond paying your bills or that you have to have money, the price tag. When you’re at the end of your pitch with your client and you give them the number, we’re usually all shaking, thinking, “Full price or free.” Sean’s the little devil on your shoulder saying, “Full price or free.” When I was discounting stuff and I would go to a meeting knowing that my customers wouldn’t like the price, after I went over these principles, I believe in my service.
  • 44:25 I believe we’re providing value. I believe that, with the value we’re providing them, they’re going to be able to make 10X on this. By believing in that, when I go to the client to give them the price, I’m confident. I throw it on the table. That’s a small price to pay with what I’m giving them. Go in with that confidence. Say, “The price is going to be a million dollars, but we both know that this is going to turn out for you to be five million in a year.”
  • 45:04 Sean: That’s the positioning of the price. Here’s the value, and the price is a fraction of it. Do you know about micro-yeses, Matt? One of the traits everyone wants is consistency. We want to be people who are consistent, so if we say we’re going to do something and someone asks us a follow up question, we think, “I already said yes, and I want to appear consistent.” It’s an attractive trait. People tend to follow through with commitments, and this guy in a video I watched was saying that he always wants to be agreeable with people. That’s what progresses a sale. As long as the value exceeds the price, then it makes sense. Would you agree? They go, “Well, yeah.”
  • 46:07 Then you get to quantifying the value. “We’ve established that this will give you a 5X or 10X return. This is the total amount.” Over the weekend, I watched three hour-long presentations by salesmen. Sift through and find the good nuggets. This was the same guy who talked about words, not using “cost” and “price.” He said that the only thing you say is “total amount” or “total investment.” Pairing with what this other guy said, you’re establishing that the value exceeds the cost. Behind the scenes, he’s saying “cost,” but when you talk to people you talk about it as the “total amount/investment.” As long as the value exceeds the price, it makes sense. Would you agree? We’ve established that what you’re going to get as a return is this, so the total amount/investment is this. If people want to appear consistent and they’ve agreed that it makes sense that the cost is lower than the value they’re getting, you’ve reduced the friction of the sale. It’s a sensible transaction because you’re over-delivering on the value by 10X.

When you share the final price with your customer, present it to them as an investment.

  • 48:03 Matt: This is true even if it’s just a convenience. Like a snow cone, maybe it’s just going to make them happy. They’re still investing in you to give them something they want. Present it like that. I like those key words not to use, because you don’t want to trigger people into thinking, “This person’s just trying to take my money.” If you’re doing full price or free, your full price is going to be more than they’re probably thinking. They don’t know the value of what you’re giving them.
  • 48:42 Sean: This was the whole story with me and Justin. The number one failure is asking your client what their budget is. That’s the worst question ever (Related: e122 10 Mistakes You’re Making With Clients That Cost You). Don’t ask a client for their budget. If Justin had asked me my budget for the Community chat system, I would have said $20,000. That’s the only number I had in my head. I worked with developers before and paid in the teens of thousands. I didn’t know what it cost. When you ask your client what their budget is, they say the number that’s in their head.
  • 49:30 After a two month discovery process, it ended up being $50,000. He never asked me for my budget. I thought, “$50,000!” That was way more than I thought, but at this point, he had positioned the value. The value was that I didn’t want to run the Community into the ground. I want people to have a great experience. I want them to stay. I’m in it for the long haul, and I’m looking at what this will help me do in the next two to three years for growing the Community. It all started to make sense. Suddenly, I was okay with a $50,000 investment. If you ask your client for their budget, as soon as they say $20,000, they’re never going to go up to $50,000.

Your client’s budget is not set in stone.

  • 50:21 Position something the right way. “Hey, by the way, if you don’t put in this chat system and you use this dinky plugin you’re using that slows your whole site down when more than 25 people are in here, it’s going to be a terrible experience. People are going to leave. What is the value of half of your people leaving in the next three months?” Suddenly, I want to invest in the next three years of my business’s future, and this makes total sense.
  • 50:49 Matt: Build it up to where it’s an investment and it’s valuable. It’s not just something that’s overpriced. Present it to your client to where they have to have it, because it’s taking care of all of their needs and even their wants. Once you do that, they’re willing to pay whatever price you put up for it.
  • 51:15 Sean: Nick’s got it. “You’ll get the price they want to pay, not what they can pay.” It could even be what they want to pay for what they think they need, not what they can pay for what they actually need, which is something you can help them discover. I like this last note from Matt here: “Know in your soul that what you provide for your customer is going to add value for them and ultimately make them money.”
  • 51:41 Matt: I was thinking, “What helps me give the customer their price tag?” Even now I get a little bit nervous when I know something is definitely over my client’s budget. They say, “This is my budget,” and I say, “I’m going to give you a price based on what we’ve talked about and what you really want and what’s going to be the best investment for you.” Usually, after that, they say, “Okay. Let’s see what it’s about. We know what we want, so let’s see the price. Everyone tells us that you’re reasonable.” It always ends up being over their budget, and I feel bad. At the end, I go into the meeting knowing in my soul without a shadow of a doubt that we’re doing the best possible work that’s going to give the customer the best possible value and, ultimately, make them money now or in the future.
  • 52:35 That’s what it comes down to. At the very end, even though they don’t like the price, they say, “That’s a little higher than we thought, but the value we’re going to get out of it is so much more. Let’s give him that.”
  • 52:56 Sean: By this point, you’ve built trust. If anything, the push-over is that they want to work with you.
  • 53:04 Matt: You win them over. If you follow all these different steps, you’ll win them over nine times out of ten.
  • 53:12 Sean: The way you think about it translates to the way other people receive it. Remember that. If you’re not confident or you’re not presenting yourself with confidence, they’re going to feel unsure. Source your confidence from the value you’re providing for people. Know that you’re helping them do better work. You’re helping them be more successful. You’re bringing value. You’re helping them make money.