Download: MP3 (48.1 MB)


Why build an audience?

Some people I know are scared. They don’t want to build an audience at all.

What they don’t realize is they have two diametrically opposed goals: on the one hand, they want to stay out of the limelight and remain unknown, but on the other hand, they want everyone to like, share, and buy their stuff.

Not going to happen.

People buy from those they know, like, and trust. If they don’t know you, they won’t buy from you.

Why build an audience?

  • You are seen as an authority.
  • You are able to sell products.
  • You are able to build community.
  • Launching new things gets easier.

If people see you as an authority, they’ll buy your products. When you get enough people together who like the same things, you can build a community. When you have a community, launching new things in easier because you’re never starting from scratch.

Check out: Audience Building Course »

Highlights, Takeaways, Quick Wins
  • People buy from those they know, like, and trust—if they don’t know you, they can’t buy from you.
  • Audience = Attention.
  • There can be no appreciation for your work without attention for your work.
  • You can’t gain attention for your work and stay invisible yourself, because people connect with other humans.
  • Communicate to your audience as if you’re talking to only one person.
  • To effectively build an audience you have to be able to create a deep connection with someone individually.
Show Notes
  • 09:10 Sean: There are people who say, “I don’t know about this whole audience building thing. I hear you say I should build an audience, but I don’t really want to build an audience. I don’t want to be in the spotlight. I don’t want to be out there, that person that everyone is looking at.” Meanwhile, they have this thing, whatever they’re doing, that they want to be appreciated.
  • 09:34 They want all of the benefits of appreciation while remaining invisible. What they have are two diametrically opposed goals. They want people to know about their stuff, buy their stuff, like their stuff, and share their stuff, but then they want to remain unknown. They want to be out of the spotlight. They want to essentially be invisible.
  • People buy from those they know, like, and trust.

    If they don’t know you, they can’t like or trust you.

  • 10:13 They have to know you to follow you. If people don’t know you, they’re not going to buy from you.
  • 10:18 Ben: I think there’s a similar group of people, and I don’t know if you were thinking of this group, who really love what they do, they want to grow an audience, they don’t mind being in the spotlight and having that attention, but they want to focus on their art. They want to focus on the thing that they’re creating and not feel like they have to split their time between marketing and actually doing the work.
  • 10:50 That’s something that Rachel and I have a lot of back and forth about. She loves writing, and she wants her writing to sell itself and speak for itself, to be the thing that grows her audience.
  • 11:08 Sean: I feel that so much. I relate to that so much. Like, “Isn’t my work good enough? Come on, people! What’s wrong?”
  • 11:17 Ben: There are many people in the Community who are extremely talented. It’s especially difficult when you see the quality of your work and you compare it to the quality of the work you see from somebody else who has a large audience.
  • 11:32 Sean: They’re getting so much attention.
  • 11:34 Ben: It’s like, “What?” That can be very discouraging, disheartening, and frustrating. You start to question the quality of your work. “Is it the quality of my work? Is there something else I’m doing wrong?” It’s tough.
  • 11:52 Sean: I know what I’m making is better than all this other stuff that’s getting all this attention! What’s the deal? It’s that whole, “If you build it, they will come,” phrase. But if you build it, then you have to market it, even up to 50/50 or 80/20. It sounds absolutely absurd. I did not agree with this, so I totally understand if people listening right now don’t get it, because I didn’t get it until a year or two ago.

Audience = Attention

  • 12:24 Sean: I didn’t understand this for many, many years. I saw people saying that they would spend 49% of the time making and 51% sharing and promoting it, and then other people were saying things like, “I spend 20% of my time making things and 80% of my time on distribution, on getting awareness for my stuff.” I thought, “That’s absurd.” I prided myself on the fact that we crank out more content than anyone.
  • 12:52 At least, we were, in the past couple of years we’ve brought that down a little bit while we’re being more strategic. I was like, “We create more! It’s better to create!” But we weren’t focused on generating awareness. To frame today’s discussion, we need to define what an audience is. What is building an audience? An audience equals attention.
  • 13:20 Joe said, “If I have customers, do I have an audience? Essentially, are customers and audience members different groups of people?” If you have customers, do you have an audience? Maybe your customers can be your audience members, but I have a question for you: if you bought something from a store three years ago and you never returned, you never talked to them again, you didn’t go back, you didn’t buy anything—are you in their audience?
  • 13:51 Ben: I think of that phrase, the old fashioned way of saying it, “I request an audience with his majesty.” The idea is that you’re standing in the room with this person who has influence, and you have their attention. I like thinking of audience in that way. Before the show, we were kind of getting into what the definition of this was. I was really excited, because I stopped Sean and I said, “Why don’t you ask me what I think audience is first, what my definition is?”
  • 14:28 Sean said, “Okay, go ahead.” I said, “An audience is a group of people who’s attention you have.” I was so proud of myself for putting it so succinctly. Then you came in with this.
  • 14:42 Sean: I said, “Ben, do you want me to tell you? Audience equals attention.”
  • 14:49 Ben: He out-Seaned me.
  • 14:54 Sean: You had it pretty good though. An audience is a group of people who’s attention you have. It’s good. You have to have people’s attention. You can’t just shout something into a crowd and say everyone’s your audience. The audience is comprised of people who are giving you their attention. They are paying attention to you.

You earn attention by giving value.

When you do that consistently, people start to pay attention to you.

  • 15:29 There was a question about how you do this if you’re an introvert. You don’t want to be the center of attention. There is no appreciation for your work without attention for your work. People have to know you to appreciate what you do. They have to know about you. Cory Miller said earlier in the chat, “Literally can’t think of any work that I admire that I don’t know anything about the person who created it.” Attention is a currency and a reciprocity.

It’s Always Human-to-Human

  • 16:18 Sean: There was another question here. I’m just going to go off the cuff. B-to-B (business-to-business) or B-to-C (business-to-customer) is all H-to-H or human-to-human. There’s always a person on the other end. There is never just a thing. There is a person every time. “Oh, well, I go to my grocery store and I trust them, Sean, and I don’t know who they are.” Yes, you do. It’s the cashier. That person may change, but when we’re talking about a big entity, it’s knowing the people who represent that entity.
  • 17:03 That may be multiple people. Multiple people shape that brand and interface with the audience when you’re talking about big companies. When you’re trying to compare and say, “Sean, why can’t I generate awareness for my work and stay out of the spotlight and remain unknown, remain invisible?”
  • You can’t gain attention for your work and stay invisible yourself because people connect with other humans on every level.

  • 17:26 That’s what we remember. That’s the impression that we get.
  • 17:30 Ben: With regard to large brands, I might separate it another degree further and say that it may not necessarily be that you connect with a person who works at the store. You don’t have a personal relationship with the cashier or whoever, but maybe you have a friend who shops there. Because you trust that friend and their opinion about that store, that’s the human-to-human connection.
  • 18:02 Maybe your parents shopped there every week as you were growing up, so you had that connection with them. You’re right, Sean. It all comes back to that human-to-human connection. That’s the interesting thing about attention. David in the chat asked, “Can I buy an audience?” Really, when you’re providing value and spending your time doing that, when you’re spending your time on a product, a piece of artwork, or whatever, that’s a way of purchasing something.
  • When you spend time developing a relationship with somebody and developing trust, you are basically buying their attention.

Attention as an Introvert

  • 18:52 Sean: Kyle says, “As a fellow introvert with an audience, the best advice I can offer is to work on the skills you don’t have. Being a good communicator, learning to speak in front of crowds, and putting your work out there, are all skills. What flipped the switch for me was recognizing what I have to share was going to benefit others. I don’t care about attention on me specifically. I care about attention on what I want to see happen in the world as a result of my ability to influence it.”
  • 19:22 That’s exactly it. You have to contextualize the end result you want. I don’t want to be here in front of the camera. Do you understand that? I’m an introvert. I don’t actually want to be on the camera. I look at the calendar and I go, “It’s a show day. I have to get on the camera.” Why do I do it? Other people love it. I can’t imagine that Jimmy Fallon doesn’t love going out there and being a ham.
  • 20:04 Ben: He looks very much like he’s having a good time.
  • 20:08 Sean: He eats it up. Don’t get me wrong. I have a good time, but this is a costly endeavor for me. As an introvert, I have to spend energy to be here. We’re generalizing, but in a general sense, I don’t get energy from this. I have to recover from this. That’s where you’re coming from, as an introvert. “I don’t want to build an audience. I don’t want to be out there.” I get it!
  • I don’t actually want to put myself out there, but I want the end result.

  • 20:41 I want to impact people. I want to help people. I want to see the change, like Kyle is saying. He knows that his work can help people, so he comes outside of his comfort zone and puts himself out there.
  • 20:54 Ben: I’m going to wonder out loud a little bit here. One thing I know about most introverts is that they are very good at having deep connections with people, deep one-on-one connections with people. Put you with a room filled with people? That’s overwhelming. Someone tells you, “Okay, you have to talk to each person who’s here!” The thing that’s the most powerful in building an audience and earning somebody’s attention is creating that one-on-one personal connection.
  • 21:31 That’s where introverts may be at an advantage, if you think about it that way. Stop thinking about this nebulous crowd of people. This is not what it takes to build an audience—don’t imagine yourself having to stand up on a platform and be worthy of everybody’s attention, have them look at you, and then feel like you have to deliver something valuable to this whole group of people.
  • To effectively build an audience you have to be able to create a deep connection with an individual.

  • 22:08 We talk about this all the time. In your podcast, your newsletter, on your blog, when you talk to the listener, reader, or viewer, you want to talk to that person, not to a nebulous group of people.
  • 22:28 Sean: How often, of all of the YouTube videos that you watch, do you watch them with friends? I would say that it’s got to be under 5% for most people and probably under 1% or 2% for almost everyone. We watch YouTube on our own. How often do you check email in front of a crowd, with people behind your shoulder? “Hey everybody, look at my email! Put it on the projector!”
  • 22:59 No, we don’t do that. It’s just us. Next week, we’re going to talk about community, and we’ll get into the difference between an audience and community, but an audience can become a community. The difference is an audience is one-to-many, and a community is many-to-many. It’s not everyone having a relationship with you, like we’re talking about here, but it’s also with each other.

Why Build an Audience?

  • 23:25 Sean: The benefits of building a audience are these:
    • You’re seen as an authority.
    • You’re able to sell products.
    • You’re able to build community.
    • Launching new things in the future gets easier.
  • 23:39 It’s easier, when you have an audience, when you have that kind of attention, to be able to do those things. You have momentum. You have attention, which is incredibly valuable. That attention can roll into other things. It’s scary. It’s like, “I don’t want to put myself out there.” There are plenty of people in the chat right now who are coming up with excuses.
  • 24:00 They’ve made a choice to be here today and say, “I’m going to figure out ways that this is not a good idea. I’m going to come up with justifications for why I don’t need to do this, why I shouldn’t do this, and why I don’t have to do this.” You’re going to lose. You need attention.
  • If you want to survive in the current day, you need attention.

  • 24:24 That is the currency. You’re either going to have to create that attention by providing value, or you have to pay for that attention through things like advertising, sponsors, or influencers, finding ways to siphon existing attention to the thing you want to do. It’s very simple. Every good thing in life requires risk. If you think of every single good thing in your life, it requires risk.
  • 24:54 If you insulate yourself from risk, you will never achieve greatness. Maybe you’re looking for a way for this to be risk-free. You’re saying, “I’m scared. I don’t want to be vulnerable. What about my friends and family? I want to build an audience and put myself out there, but my friends and family are going to see this. What will they think? What will they say? What if people don’t like me? What if they send hate mail? What if they see my real name and they look me up?”
  • 25:23 There are all of these fears. I’m not saying that any of these are illegitimate, but they’re fears. They’re things that hold you back. If you’re looking for a risk-free path, if you’re looking for a way for this to be completely seamless, easy, no problems, no risk, it’s not there. You actually have to take a risk and put yourself out there. Here’s the thing that will make you feel better.
  • 25:48 The discomfort you feel right now when you hear this is what everyone feels and few people overcome. What this means is that the vast majority of people will not do this. They will not put themselves out there. They won’t put themselves on camera. They won’t be vulnerable. They won’t reveal parts of themselves. They’ll try to come up with creative excuses for, “How can I obscure myself? How can I walk out onto the stage, have everyone see me, applaud my work, yet I remain invisible?”

Change Lives One Person at a Time

  • 26:19 Ben: Extroverts, I think, will generally do this. Maybe they have a much easier time overcoming that fear, because they get a lot of energy from attention. But I have to work to go deep with somebody. It is very uncomfortable for me to be vulnerable and to go into the deeper parts of who I am, to try to talk to somebody like an individual. I know that I keep coming back to this, but Lisa in the chat said to me, “You just described how I feel whenever I post something of mine on Facebook.”
  • 27:06 Talking about the nebulous crowd. I think it’s important for us to overcome discomfort, but I also think there’s an opportunity here. For those who feel more uncomfortable putting something out to the nebulous crowd, let me ask this question. If you knew that on the other end of the computer, there was one person that was going to see that, would that feel better? Does that feel easier to you than thinking about it as this whole crowd of people?
  • 27:45 If you were to go into the settings, you can select “not public” or “just friends.” You can select an individual, just one person. Would that feel easier? For most people who have that fear of putting something out there to the nebulous crowd, that does feel easier, but that mentality, I think, is what it takes to effectively grow an audience.
  • To effectively grow an audience, you need to communicate as if you’re talking to one person.

  • 28:16 Sean: Which you are! It’s not a mental trick to communicate as if you’re talking to one person. You are talking to one person. You’re just doing it many times and replicating it through technology. I was watching an #AskGaryVee show yesterday, and they normally take questions from social media and he answers them. Lately, at random times, he’ll say, “Send your phone number. I’m going to call you on the show.” Hundreds of people put their phone number out there. I don’t know why they do this, because anyone can see their phone number.
  • 28:51 They do it, and live on the air, he has the speakerphone on the desk, and he’ll call random people, even in different countries. One guy goes, “Gary, all I wanted to say was thank you for what you do. I want to know if I could get coffee with you.” Gary said, “I appreciate it, thank you. I have 500 internal meetings. I need to have 500 internal meetings with people in my company that I have not yet had, much less external.”
  • 29:28 He’s like, “I had 15 minutes for this show.” He’s just making time to bang out a show and help people in the audience. When he randomly calls people, almost every single time, people are stumbling over themselves, and they’re like, “You’ve changed my life, literally.” That’s the message. I’m not anywhere near Gary’s level, but I can’t tell you how intoxicating it is to get messages like that from people that say, “You changed my life.”
  • 30:03 “You made me believe in myself. You made me believe this was a thing that I could do. I went from being stuck in a soul-sucking day job to doing my own thing. I quit that job. I went out on my own because of the encouragement I got from you.” That is so huge. Everyone knows me right now for who I am right now. “Oh, Sean’s the guy who’s being controversial. He’s a little harsh,” or whatever.
  • 30:31 They know me now. They don’t know me just five years ago. I was scared to put out a blog post. Every single time, I didn’t want to publish this. When I published it, I didn’t want to share it. I wanted people to read it, but I didn’t want them to see it! You know what I mean? It doesn’t even make sense, but this is the thing we feel. Look up my first conference talk from 2013. I’m a different person.

You Are Who You Say You Are

    You think you’re not the person with an audience, the person who puts themselves out there, and you’re right.

  • 31:18 Sean: I’m not the person who goes on video. Maybe I’ll write some words, but I’m not going to go on video. I’m not that person. You know what? You’re right. If I’m any example, I don’t know anyone more introverted than me. You may not believe it, but I have stayed inside the house for literally 12 days.
  • 31:44 Ben: You haven’t gone outside at all?
  • 31:46 Sean: Yeah.
  • 31:49 Ben: Not even to put the trash out?
  • 31:53 Sean: People are scared to put themselves out there because they think they’re just so introverted. I just shared something about myself that some people can relate to, and the rest of them think I’m insane. They’re like, “What is wrong with him?” I’m being vulnerable right now. Without a time machine, I can’t go back and show you the different person I was that would never do this before.
  • 32:14 I would never have done this before. I saw that I didn’t want to go out there, but I also saw the results, I saw people connect and relate to that and say, “I feel the same way, but you were able to overcome that. I’m going to try it.” They do it, and then they come back and they share the results. I want everyone to have that feeling.
  • 32:42 Ben: You said, “I’m not the person who does this. I’m not the person who gets on video,” and you said, “You’re right.” That’s such an important idea.
  • What you think about yourself becomes an action that you do or don’t take.

  • 33:07 If you think you’re not the kind of person who gets in front of a camera and because of that thought, you choose not to do it, you’re absolutely right. You don’t prove yourself wrong until you turn the camera on, sit in front of it, and awkwardly work your way through the first three minutes of delivering something on video. Everybody has to take that first step. Even somebody who’s really outgoing and seems very confident, they still have to work to get to where you might look at them and say, “That person was born to be in front of a camera.”
  • 33:47 Everybody has to start somewhere. You’re definitely not that kind of person until you do it, and then you are. Then you are a person who has gotten in front of a camera.
  • 34:01 Sean: When I was just sharing all of that a moment ago, you just remove yourself from the moment. You come outside yourself. You forget that you’re on camera or behind a microphone, and you open yourself up and you share. You’re vulnerable. While you were talking, I was looking at the chat, and there are a lot of people relating to this. Lisa feels like we’re reading her mind, like we’re in her head.
  • 34:31 Other people are saying that they feel the same. Pam says she wants to hibernate. Bianca says, “I relate.” Scott says, “From hiding behind a door to hosting conferences,” you don’t even know, Scott. I may have shared this once on another podcast, but when I was five or six and my parents would drop me off at class, I would stand behind the door the entire class. I would just stand behind the door at five or six years old.
  • 35:01 The teacher brought it up when my dad came to pick me up. They were like, “You know, when Sean stands behind the door the whole time…” He was like, “What?” He didn’t even know. It’s not just staying inside. I was so reserved. Like Scott said, to hosting a conference. I’m not anyone special. I really am not. This whole experiment, 305 episodes in, is me wanting to iterate in public and doing it live, letting other people come along for the journey. That’s all it is.
  • 35:43 Ben: You’re not special.

Audience Building Course

  • 35:55 Sean: I love you guys so much that we’ve been working for some months now on something we’ve been planning for several years now. We finally made it happen. We put together a five module, 20 lesson course called Audience Building Course. I’m giving it away for free. We produced this course as if we were going to sell it for $199, but I’m giving it away for free.
  • 36:28 Cory: Oh, for the first 24 hours.
  • 36:29 Sean: No, Cory. Indefinitely.
  • 36:32 Cory: There’s no way he can promise this, Ben.
  • 36:37 Sean: This is our big move in 2017. When I gave away a free starter class before, it exploded. It got shared around a bunch. I wanted to do that. I wanted to give something away that was so epicly valuable that it doesn’t make sense. Like, “Why is this free? Why didn’t you charge me?” That’s just what we do. We over-deliver on the value, and I want to help people.
  • 37:01 We’ve been working really hard. We’re doing custom illustrations for it. Everything is written. It’s produced as though it’s a full-blown course that we sell. Three camera setup. The lighting, multiple microphones, editing, graphics… It’s fully produced, and I want to help you with this. It’s completely free. I hope that it’s so helpful to you that this becomes the obvious thing you recommend to people.
  • 37:26 They’re like, “I’m struggling with this,” and you go, “! You’re struggling with building an audience? This is the place! Of course you go here! It’s free!”
  • 37:38 Ben: It’s just free for members?
  • 37:39 Sean: No, Ben. We’re giving it away. We’re doing it. As of today, it’s February 8th when this comes out, go to and you can go sign up. It’s totally free. I wanted to scratch the surface here and get people to understand the value of it, why you should build an audience.
  • This course tells you how to build an audience, and there are zero excuses because it’s free.

  • 38:10 We’ve spent months on this, and we hope you enjoy it.
  • 38:13 Ben: That was one of the questions that came up earlier that I thought went really well with this idea. You know, “I’m a person who has something I feel proud of. I think it’s great work, but people just aren’t showing up.” In Rachel’s case, she spends a lot of time writing, but she also spends a lot of time doing marketing and trying to get the word out there. That can be a really frustrating thing, when you have something that’s really good, you are spending some time doing marketing, and you’re still not seeing results.
  • 38:52 I can’t remember who mentioned it, but they said that they have been putting out blogs for months and not seeing results from that. One of the things I’m really excited about with this Audience Building Course is if it’s anything like what I’ve heard from you in the past, Sean, the talks you’ve given about building an audience and the things we’ve talked about on this show, in a course format, it’s going to be super valuable. It’s going to be the best tips, the most effective practices you can implement to actually make some progress on building an audience.

If You Don’t Know Your Why

  • 39:33 Sean: We had a number of questions, and I don’t know that we can get to all of them, but I do want to get to this one. I want to get your thoughts. Sarah says, “Should I start building an audience even before I know my why?” I love this question. Ye, and here’s why. You’re in one of two places. You either know your why, your mission, the reason you do things and what you want to accomplish, or you don’t know your why.
  • 40:13 Those are the two different places you might be. If you do know your why, your goals is going to be to get everyone on board with that why, your mission, your core values. The why is a mist. You can’t grab it. It’s intangible. People need things to grab onto. They’re physical beings. They need something tangible to get what you’re able, so you need that initial thing for people to wrap their minds around.
  • 40:44 This is something I teach in the Audience Building Course, curating, and also the Overlap book. Man, we should be more purposeful about this. It’s like, “Hey, you enjoyed the Audience Building Course? You should check out the Overlap book, because that’s like the whole thesis.” We’re just giving value away.
  • If you don’t know what your why is, start with something.

  • 41:09 I did a seanwes tv whiteboard episode called What → Why → Whats. You have to start with something tangible, a thing people can get, like lettering. Lettering isn’t a why, it’s a what. It’s a thing. Once people come on board through that initial thing, they get to know you, what you’re about, and what your mission is, and then they come into understanding your why.
  • 41:45 A lot of those people will continue to follow you on to the next thing and the next thing, all of the additional whats in the future, whatever they are. They’re interested in following them, because they want to see how this plays out. It’s like the TV show that you watch. You love seeing the characters in different scenarios and situations, because you know who they are, you understand their characters, and it’s fun to see how they’ll react in these different situations. This is basically the same thing. People are on board for your journey.
  • If you don’t know your why, you should still start building your audience, because it actually begins with your what.

  • 42:23 Ben: This is where I wish I could be using the whiteboard. I’m getting these really nice visual representations, graphs and stuff like that. I might amend the What → Why → Whats, because I think there’s something that happens after the why. It goes What → Why → Who, the who being their connection to you. “Whats” is kind of the same thing. The reason they can connect to your whats is because they’ve connected to the who behind the why, and that’s the really powerful thing.
  • 43:14 All of those things might be present the whole time. Maybe you already have a why. You’re certainly who you are already. The what in the beginning is the most tangible thing. It’s the easiest grip, like in rock climbing. Have you ever been to one of those rock climbing walls and they have the three sections? One section has these really nice big grips close together. The next one, the grips are a little bit smaller and further apart. The next one, the grips are tiny, and they’re so far apart that somebody would have to be an acrobat with incredible grip strength to make it up that. There’s always that guy with the chalk and the crazy weird shoes.
  • 44:21 Sean: There’s always that guy! In everything! In art class, at the bowling alley. Some guy is just chalking up. You’re like, “Woah, he brought out the chalk! This guy’s serious!” All over!
  • 44:41 Ben: The what is the easy course. It’s those easy grips that are close together. It’s rare that you’re able to get somebody to connect with your why right off the bat, and it’s even more rare that they connect with you as a person, having no relationship with you. The what is the easiest track for them to go up. Over time, as they spend time with you, as they develop their grip, they can graduate to those other places. Finally, at some point, they are connected to your who.
  • 45:24 Sean: I’d love to see a whiteboard video from you.

Start With Your What

  • 45:59 Cory: On the whole What → Why → Whats concept, I realized that I’ve been doing it wrong with my film. When I tell people about my feature film, I’ve been telling them why I’m making it. “I want it to do this. It has this message, this really cool theme.” I love asking why and why again, getting really deep. I know why I’m making my film, and I held onto that. That’s how I’ve been pitching my film.
  • 46:30 I tell people why I’m making the film, but that’s too soon. I need to be talking about what it is. What is the film? They’re not going to care why I made the film if they don’t care what the film is. I’ve realized that I’ve been needing to pitch the story of the film, not why I’m making the story. I’ve been doing it out of order, so it’s interesting that you guys brought the What → Why → Whats concept up, because I’ve been needing to hold back on the why. People need to be bought into what I’m doing now, and then they’ll want to know why.
  • 47:07 Ben: I’m somewhat familiar with what you’re putting together. On the spot, can you tell me what the what is of your film?
  • 47:17 Cory: I’ve been practicing this. We’ll see how I do. My current film is called I Am My Father, and it follows a father and son, Ethan and Cain, through the journey of their relationship through Cain’s birth into adulthood. We follow this chronological journey. Their relationship becomes estranged when Cain experiences an event in his life that will change his life forever. That’s the pitch, so that’s interesting. It’s like, “Oh, I wonder what happens and how they’re going to deal with that.” That’s interesting. In the past, I’ve been pitching the why.
  • 47:53 Ben: Which is?
  • 47:54 Cory: The film is about communication and the importance of that, so that becomes interesting.
  • 48:00 Ben: People are like, “Yeah. Communication is important. I’m on board with that.” But in what context?
  • 48:08 Cory: Right. That’s been my biggest thing that I’ve learned. The why comes after, and it’s okay to know it first. If you don’t know your why right now, don’t be worried about that.