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We’ve been talking about content for the last few weeks: how to make it, why you should make it, what to make.

But the truth is, despite knowing all the tactics, despite having the path laid out in front of us…

Most of us still do nothing.

We have a passion. We have a message that we want to share with the world. So why don’t we do anything about it?

Today, Dan and Ben want to get to the bottom of this. What does it take? What does it take to turn intentions into action? What does it take to step past our barriers and do something? What does it take, to actually make the work we care about?

Links & Resources Mentioned

Recent episodes on creating content:

Episode Transcript

Note: This transcript of the episode was machine-generated by Descript and has not been edited for correctness. It’s provided for your convenience when searching. Please excuse any errors.

Dan: [00:00:00] If you think of your ego is being this like this little voice a little smaller version of you standing on your shoulder whispering in your ear, you know, it’s the voice that says keep fantasizing about this thing someday. It’ll be great won’t it won’t be great someday. When I am this thing that I want to be but meanwhile just keep watching Netflix or keep reading books or keep listening to podcasts about how to make content.

But whatever you do don’t actually do it. Because that might change who you are.

Ben: [00:00:44] Good morning, Dan. 

Dan: [00:00:47] Good morning, Ben. How’s it going? 

Ben: [00:00:49] It’s going great. How are you? 

Dan: [00:00:51] I’m doing exceptionally well this morning. 

Ben: [00:00:54] It’s good to hear hate. Happy voting day belated. 

Dan: [00:01:00] Thank you. 

Ben: [00:01:01] Yeah, that was that was yesterday as we record this podcast yesterday haneda had an election. Do you call it?

It’s called an election, right? 

Dan: [00:01:10] Yeah, we still speak English up here in 

Ben: [00:01:14] awesome. 

Dan: [00:01:15] That’s it. But Ben’s, right? Yeah, we have a federal election going on. So. Yesterday was Voting day. I actually voted early. So I voted a few days ago already and I’ve already forgotten who I voted for. 

Ben: [00:01:27] All right. 

Dan: [00:01:28] a joke.

It’s a joke, it’s fine. 

Ben: [00:01:30] Oh you’re kidding. Okay. 

Dan: [00:01:32] was kidding. Yes. 

Ben: [00:01:35] So so anyways, but but here we are. 

Dan: [00:01:38] We are here. 

Ben: [00:01:40] And you sent me a message yesterday or you recorded an audio recording that you sent to my messenger? 

Dan: [00:01:49] I just held down a icon on my phone. Don’t make it super complicated. 

Ben: [00:01:53] Yeah, yeah.

But Sean Sean texted me and said hey, I can’t do the show with you. Why don’t you and Dan go ahead and do a show? Didn’t didn’t give us any topic ideas, you know, just like you guys you guys got this. 

Dan: [00:02:09] Yeah, the way Shawn teaches you to swim as he just throws you in the deep end. 

Ben: [00:02:14] That’s how I teach my kids to swim.

Dan: [00:02:16] Well, this is now you’re getting the taste of your own medicine. 

Ben: [00:02:19] worked for four out of five. I’m just kidding. 

Dan: [00:02:25] Is is everyone? Okay? 

Ben: [00:02:28] Everyone is yeah. Everyone’s good. 

Dan: [00:02:30] All right good. Well Sean, and I had a call yesterday. So yeah, he similarly told me you know, I can’t do the show on on Tuesday.

So why don’t you and Ben do a show and we did discuss topics. So so take that I was merely pushed into the shallow end and not thrown into the deep end the thing we came up with was. Stick it kind of sticking with the theme of creating content that we’ve been talking about for the last few weeks and in particular.

I think at this point like if you go back and listen to the last few episodes of the podcast, you will know how to produce daily content and you’ll know why you should do it and you’ll know exactly how to do it. And if you’re like me you’re still not doing it. 

Ben: [00:03:23] Mmm. Yeah, why why is it we have all this great information everything we could ever want to know to get started with making content and it’s still not happening.

Dan: [00:03:39] Yeah still not it’s still not. Um, I mean we can just ask briefly in the chat. Are you guys creating content? Yes or no, like like let us know. And if I don’t see anyone say anything I will assume that no one is making any content. 

Ben: [00:03:57] Right, and there’s a little bit of a delay. So we might make assumptions before it that’s fair to do, but we I don’t know about your experience standby.

I tend to like it comes and goes in waves for me and I end up fighting the same battles over and over again every time I have intentions to make content and kind of this almost predictable lead up before I finally get started and then you know, I’ll have a I’ll have a run of making content and then.

Maybe circumstances or something comes up something happens and disrupts the Rhythm that I’ve created. And so I think I think it’s not just folks who have never gotten started with making content or who have never made content before you know, I think we’re going to be talking to a variety of folks today, but who are just in that season of I know I know what I need to do.

I know like I know everything I know all of the things. But I’m not I’m not doing it. I’m not getting started. And and I feel like answering the question of why and what to do is it just feels like more of the same that we’ve already talked about. And so I just as I was I was going for a jog this morning.

I was kind of thinking through this topic. And I came up with some different ideas some things that I’ve identified for myself that end up being some Hang-Ups and. and and I thought it was you and I talked about them in this episode. Maybe it would unlock something for someone else out there and and that would feel like we’re doing our job.

So does that sound good to you? 

Dan: [00:05:54] Absolutely. You you had a few points. And there’s there’s one in particular that I’m I’d be inclined to start with if you’ll allow it. 

Ben: [00:06:07] I’ll allow it. 

Dan: [00:06:09] So been sent me this list of points that he sort of wanted to touch on and one of them really stood out to me. It was the way you put it is planning is a drug.

Ben: [00:06:20] Mmm Yeah. Yeah, so. planning is it’s something that’s necessary. You know, it’s it’s not wise in many cases to move forward with something without having some kind of plan or strategy in place. but the way that it gets used or the way, I’ve used it in the past is it has kind of. Acted like this drug for me where?

If I sit down I open up and I’m being very specific about the way that I do things. I’ll sit down. I’ll open up my journal sharpen my pencil. It’s like all right, here we go. Sit down make sure the kids are playing outside or I’ve got, you know some time to just focus I sit down. I need I probably need to go get some coffee.

I’m going I go and get some coffee. So I’ve got some nice hot coffee there the journals open you can you can smell the page. You can smell the freshly sharpened pencil. 

Dan: [00:07:27] Ben stop it’s like you’re describing every Instagram photo of creative person. 

Ben: [00:07:34] and. And I and I start writing things down and I’ll fill I’ll fill a whole page with my plans for how I’m going to make some content.

Dan: [00:07:44] them off. Yeah. 

Ben: [00:07:45] And it feels good. It’s like yeah. 

Dan: [00:07:48] feels it feels worse than good. It feels productive. 

Ben: [00:07:51] Yeah, 

Dan: [00:07:52] doing something. 

Ben: [00:07:53] like I did that I sat down and I wrote that down. And it and it provides some momentary relief. Run the the pressure and the stress and you know, the the obligation I feel to make actual content.

And I’ve I can describe that so well because I’ve done it over and over and over again. and in sometimes like repetitively like. I’ll do that. And then the next week I still haven’t acted on my plan. And I think maybe that maybe that plan wasn’t good enough or maybe you know, maybe something’s changed and I need to tweak it a little bit and so I do the same routine.

And whatever that looks like for you, you know, maybe maybe you’re planning is more digitally based or maybe you do whiteboard sessions or you know, whatever it is. But whatever your version of that is. 

Dan: [00:08:58] might be it might be thinking it but you know what else it might be like taking courses or reading books all of those feel like part of planning getting ready.

I’ll always getting ready to make stuff but never actually getting around to doing. 

Ben: [00:09:14] Yeah. Yeah, so it’s it’s helpful for me to know. Because because there is a time when I didn’t there was a time when I didn’t realize that I was I was just. I was just trying to make myself feel a little bit better.

Dan: [00:09:36] So you plan and plan and plan? 

Ben: [00:09:39] Yeah, I didn’t I didn’t realize that. My planning was actually keeping me from feeling. Enough of the discomfort of not making something to take action, you know like that is any. I think this is I think there’s a true statement any action we take. Is born out of our dissatisfaction?

or out of some type of discomfort. 

Dan: [00:10:10] Right sound so we don’t we don’t do things is that that a cognitive misers idea right like human beings evolved to preserve energy, you know reduce calorie expenditure. So like we don’t we don’t do stuff unless we have a really good reason and the reason is driven by some form of discomfort and that might be going to the bathroom, but it might also be like quitting your job or you know, finally putting on a.

Put on some nice clothes and going out to meet other human beings because you’re just you finally become so uncomfortable with the state of things. 

Ben: [00:10:46] Yeah, and we do we do it all the time, you know, we use false things to alleviate that discomfort instead of dealing with the root of this of the discomfort.

And sometimes we do that knowingly, sometimes we know this is only just going to make us feel better now. but it’s. But it’s easier than doing the other more complicated thing. And so, you know, like scrolling on social media. Is easier than getting into your car and driving somewhere to meet up with friends and over time?

There’s nothing wrong with being on social media, but over time the discomfort of loneliness. Can’t it can’t be met by the temporary relief you get from opening up your social apps on your phone, you know, like so I think I think a similar thing is happening with planning. 

Dan: [00:11:53] Yeah, the discomfort the discomfort can’t be met.

but the problem is. It’s easy to replace one thing with with another right so the you’ll never really fulfill your desire for social interaction just by scrolling on social media, but it’s like it gives you enough of a sense that you are curing the dissatisfaction or at least numbing the dissatisfaction that.

You might not ever go out and hang out with your friends and and ditto like the planning might alleviate just enough of the pressure to do something that you’ll just plan and you’ll fill notebooks. And but you’ll never actually make the thing panov dropped a quote in the chat that I like quite a lot movement masks suffering, you know that that frenzied activities often times.

Takes the place of like takes the place of more valuable activities, but specifically it does so because it it gives us relief at least temporarily. 

Ben: [00:13:00] Yeah, at least at least we’re doing something even if it’s not the right thing. Yeah, so just just the awareness of that helps immensely and then you know, I think maybe you can make rules for yourself if you feel the urge to sit down and plan.

Maybe you make a rule for yourself that you have to. make some form of content and publish it before you’re allowed to sit down and write down your plan. 

Dan: [00:13:36] Yeah, you know what though occurs to me. Let’s let’s talk about a few of these a few of these blockers and then let’s talk about rules. Because I get the feeling we’re going to notice a bunch of things in common.

Ben: [00:13:49] Yeah for sure. 

Dan: [00:13:51] So if you’ll allow me the next one of these been sent me five points to put it in context and I think that three three of them kind of set the stage for why why we’re not making stuff and the the next to start to point in the direction of. We could do differently right and this is this is all in the service of answering the question of what it would take what we know what to make we know why we should make it and we know how to make it but we’re not so the question were left with is what will it take?

What will it take to actually make this thing whatever that is. That’s the most important to you whether its content to put on social media. But even then when we talk about making content for social media, it’s in the service of. Some passion right like and we generally talk about it from the perspective of starting a business based on your passion.

Ben: [00:14:47] Right. 

Dan: [00:14:48] So what would it take to actually do this thing now in terms of the things that cloud it that that can fuse that sort of cloud our judgment. The next point that you had on here was confusing the essential with the. 

Ben: [00:15:05] Right, and I think many of us have a pretty good sense. So if you if you think about.

what it takes to make. A piece of content. and and you could and you could put all of those things on a spectrum ranging from absolutely essential to non-essential like nice to have I think many of us have a sense of. What is on the farthest edges of either of those like we know we’ve got to have something to talk about like we know that.

Our voice or some expression of our voice is essential to actually making the content. And we know that having the nicest camera in the world is non-essential. We know that we probably even know that like having really nice lighting or having a super amazing computer or whatever it is. Is a non-essential but I think in the middle.

There’s some gray area. There’s a little bit of overlap where we consider things to be essential that really are not essential. and. And it’s it’s hard for me to Define that because I really I can only Define it for myself. So. So for me one of the one of the things that I’ve thought of as essential.

is. having having a really clear well-defined like outline constructive how I want to present information and that includes research and and all of these other things and if I don’t. If I don’t present the very best version of that it’s not worth putting out there and that’s different. That’s a little bit different from perfectionism in a sense.

And in other ways, it’s similar. but. but what is essential is? Me actually talking about something. So for example if it has to do with making making video.

I I don’t want to make some I don’t want to make a piece of content and not touch on all of the relevant things about making a video but I’m missing out on an opportunity to share what I know my thoughts and opinions. If I’m if I’m making having it perfectly outlined and having all of the information possible and essential part of the process.

Does that make sense? I feel like I feel like that metaphor is not great or that examples not great, but. 

Dan: [00:18:17] I think it I think though what it what it demonstrates though is just how confused we can get about. What is really essential and what is not right some level of. some level you could say the same level of skill at your chosen thing is essential but I think even that is a fallacy and an excuse I got to get better at this before I can do.

It’s easy to think that you know, I’m not good enough yet. So I can’t make a thing except that for practically anything that you want to do the way you get better at it is by doing it. So you’re not going to be helped by holding off. You’re not going to be helped by I’ve got to finish. I’ve got to get my outline right before I record this video that isn’t helping you get better at recording videos.

It’s just helping you get better at writing outlines and not record videos and ditto for me like. You know, I’m working on this novel or you know not working on it which is more to the point and I got a lot further by doing a lot of outlining than I have in the past when I just tried to sit down and write a whole novel off the top of my head granted.

However, I rapidly run into this scenario where I think I have more planning to do so, I don’t write anything, but I’m not really doing that much planning either. I’m. You know ignoring the essential thing. The essential thing is the writing the essential thing is to sit down and like make words happen because then you can evaluate whether they’re the right words.

Ben: [00:19:55] Well, okay. Yeah, so I get what you’re saying would but when you said evaluate I was I was just now reading this from nav in the chat. You said one excuse that I use is I want my content to help people and I feel motivated only when the content is appreciated. And when I say appreciate it, I don’t mean that it needs to be praised by a thousand people but at least one person should find it valuable because that gives my efforts to meaning and and it’s really easy to look at that and to think if if what I’ve produced.

Isn’t going to be valuable and you and you you make it and you judge it or maybe you have an idea of what you’re going to make and you’re all right, and you’re judging the idea. Which is absolutely something that I do but. But if it’s not going to be appreciated if it’s not going to be helpful.

that becomes that becomes a form of calling something that’s non-essential essential because content. does not need to be helpful or appreciated in order to exist. 

Dan: [00:21:06] Well, and there’s a trick there’s a trick that for Navas playing on himself and many of us are playing on ourselves, which is you don’t you’re trying to predict the future.

You know, you make a piece of content General and you’re like well, I don’t think this is helpful and I want to help people so I shouldn’t share this or I shouldn’t finish it or I shouldn’t make it in the first place. You can’t predict what’s going to help people. You can’t predict who will or won’t be helped by a thing.

You can only make it put it out in the world and see what happens that this is actually selling Sean covered in a previous show. That we’ve taken a taken a lot of little clips for social media from episode 4 49. Which I believe is called how to make daily content and it sort of kicked off this series like this theme and Shawn goes through a lot of excuses in that show and this is one of them.

That you you it’s not up to you to decide what’s valuable to the world’s. It’s just up to you to make stuff and put it out there. So bring that back to the essential versus non-essential. Yeah, I think yet another place where we’re mistaking one for the other. We think that what we have to do is create good work important work and until we can do that.

I guess we shouldn’t create anything because the work being good and important is what’s essential that’s not true. The thing that’s essential is just doing the work. Whether anything ever comes from that is up, you know is up to the universe. I mean get as metaphysical as you like or put that in the flavor that appeals to you.

But you know, you don’t really you can’t predict what the outcome is going to of making a thing is going to be all you can do is is make. 

Ben: [00:22:55] And there is kind of a lead measure lag measure thing going on with that, too. Where where we think we are in control over how valuable something is. And. I don’t know if that’s the best.

Well, I’m just I’m just going to get into it. So. 

Dan: [00:23:18] Yeah, yeah get into it. I think you’re on to something. 

Ben: [00:23:22] how valuable and helpful something is. depends a lot on some it does depend a lot on some things that are related to skill like your ability to communicate clearly. How wide how wide reaching your platform is, you know how much influence you have and how much Authority you have like there there are a lot of those things but but those things.

Are improved by doing the essential things? and. And so what like when when we focus on is this valuable is this helpful? And that costs us our ability to actually do the thing. We’re undermining our ability to make it valuable and to make it helpful and. 

Dan: [00:24:18] guaranteeing that it won’t be valuable because it.


Ben: [00:24:23] right and and you know and for nav. Posted in the chat reminded me of very concise way of putting this. quantity leads to Quality. Yeah, so so and and we’ve we’ve kind of focused on one thing. The quality or the or the value of a piece of content as one of those non-essentials that we think of as the essentials, but they’re you know, there are dozens more.

There are other things that we think of as essential that are really non-essential and so it’s you know, I think it’s good to sit down and to evaluate. Is is this thing that I think has to happen before I make content really essential or is it or am I just treating it like it’s essential but really I don’t need to do it right now.

and that’s not to say that’s not to say you never get the nice camera or you never get the. Nice lights, you never get the powerful computer or whatever it is that you feel like would help you make amazing awesome content. But but those things don’t those things don’t need to be there in order for you to make something today.


Dan: [00:25:43] They’re not they’re not on as project managers say they’re not on the critical path whether you get the nice computer is is not relevant to whether you make the content in terms of being essential. I think to put it very bluntly almost nothing is essential. That’s that’s what essential means essential describes only the things without which.

You can’t exist. 

Ben: [00:26:08] let me let me kind of come at it from a different angle to because I. You said that? Almost nothing is essential. And what I think what I think sometimes is happening is we’re looking at those things and thinking me plus these things equals good enough content. And we’re undervaluing our voice in our perspective and our thoughts and opinions.

You are enough. Without all of that extra stuff. your voice is enough your thoughts and opinions and ideas are enough. and there. and and. 

Dan: [00:26:57] Yeah, you you are enough without all the extra stuff it Rhymes. So it has to be true. 

Ben: [00:27:03] It perfect. Thank you. You are enough without all the extra stuff. 

Dan: [00:27:06] That’s right.

There’s there’s another there’s another thread we can pick up here. See I think these all tied together very well the things you brought up. Which is that knowing is not believing? 

Ben: [00:27:22] Yeah. there are so many things that. I’ve heard through podcasts I’ve read in articles I’ve watched in videos. The eye I’ve been exposed to enough knowledge and I could even probably recite to you enough knowledge.

That like I should be a millionaire based on what I based on what I know based on what I’ve already heard if I had put those things into action. and. I think I think a lot of us feel that way like you kind of you become dissatisfied with where you are. You want your business to grow. You want your life to improve you want your health to improve whatever it is.

And so you go out and you start consuming content and you hear great stuff because there’s a lot of great information out there. There’s a lot of great information on this podcast. You hear a lot of great stuff. and. And you’re like, yeah, I agree with that. And it becomes this thing that sits in your head.

That’s like I the I agree with that I want that I I know that now. 

Dan: [00:28:44] Yeah, you know it but. 

Ben: [00:28:46] But I think what happens is. The reason we’re not experiencing the things that we know is because we on some level we don’t really deep down believe them. And that’s kind of a mystery in and of itself. I like I don’t know if I can answer this this question outside of what will eventually get to but like how do you turn something that you know into something that you actually believe like just like the idea of like you’re enough I’ve heard that before people have said that to me.

But but there are times when I still struggle to believe that why you know, what’s what’s the disconnect?

Dan: [00:29:36] It’s a good question. We talk about. We’ve talked before about the difference between head knowledge vs. Heart knowledge, which I think is a different way of saying this same thing. The difference between knowing something well enough that when someone asks when someone starts a conversation in the community, you don’t even have to think about it that hard you just type the reply.

It’s the first thing that comes to you. Maybe it’s about. Value-based pricing or about the effectiveness of having a writing habit, but meanwhile, it’s entirely possible that you don’t have a writing habit and you’re not doing value-based pricing in your client work. Because again go back to what’s essential knowing stuff.

Maybe maybe flip it around a little bit. There’s this expression that I like necessary but not sufficient where if you’re going to do something. Knowledge is necessary but not sufficient. You might need you need some amount of knowledge before you can do the thing, but merely having the knowledge does not result in the doing of the thing.

Ben: [00:30:39] Right. 

Dan: [00:30:40] That’s what we’re that’s what we’re grappling with here. When we asked the question, what will it take? What will it take? I mean you and I could both say things that we found that are clearly not. Sufficient even though they may have been necessary. I could tell you about the courses I’ve taken that.

I’ve maybe spent like hundreds or thousands of dollars on that have that have yet not resulted in the starting of a business or the writing of a novel or the ETC and you know, it’s not that I like regret getting that knowledge because having the knowledge is important, but clearly that by itself.

Was not enough right like that wasn’t sufficient and I’m I’m sure you have your own version of that. I’m sure everyone does. 

Ben: [00:31:21] Yeah, absolutely. And and as as we’re sitting here talking about this, I fear that maybe. that maybe we create we build this habit for ourselves of collecting knowledge that we don’t take action on.

And I wonder. 

Dan: [00:31:42] I have to do is look at my Kindle account to know that that’s true. 

Ben: [00:31:47] yeah, and I and I wonder though if it becomes not just like oh, yeah, I you know, I didn’t do that but it really becomes this habit and and it also does something to us. I think when when there’s something you know, you should do but you’re not doing it.

You start to like you might feel guilt or shame over that it kind of It kind of becomes this rot, you know like. 

Dan: [00:32:17] Yeah. 

Ben: [00:32:18] and and said that. 

Dan: [00:32:21] on you. 

Ben: [00:32:22] Yeah, and and that habit of collecting knowledge and not taking action on it and what that can do to you. I just I’m kind of thinking out loud here, but I wonder if.

I wonder if it’s kind of the the same way my parents, you know treated us when we were at a buffet there. Like you can go back for seconds or thirds or fifths if you want. But if you put something on your plate, you’ve got to eat it that was their rule because you know, they they didn’t they didn’t want us to leave a bunch of food waste and I find myself repeating the same thing.

Dan: [00:33:03] to if you’re going to allow yourself to watch a YouTube video about how to shoot better videos or something. Then you must create a video that demonstrates what you learned. 

Ben: [00:33:16] Yeah, I guess and I guess maybe backing off of the producing content thing really. It’s more like. if you’re if you’re going to consume something that is instructive in some way that is meant to.

Give you, you know some way to take action then. You need to take action on it. And that’s kind of that’s like you’re when you’re when you’re watching that YouTube video or you’re listening to that podcast or you’re reading that article. We call that consuming. But really what you’re doing is you’re just putting stuff on your plate and actually taking action on it.

Is eating it? 

Dan: [00:34:02] Right taking action would be the with the synthesis which is the work of taking the things that you’ve learned and making some new thing that’s derived from them. Right that is that is the human grade of. Capacity not not just the taking in of the information. 

Ben: [00:34:18] Some stuff is junk and you do want to throw it away.

Dan: [00:34:21] You know what? But look I’m going to say something maybe a little controversial. There’s lots of stuff though. That isn’t junk but I’m starting to think that like suspicion. Towards your desire for information might be a good idea that let’s just put it this way when someone mentions that they found this book on this topic really helpful.

I tend to immediately open in my web browser and either buy a copy of the book or at least book market for later and I’m starting to think that maybe what I should do when I go, you know, what I’m going to do is buy this book. Don’t buy the book. Don’t don’t read the book. You don’t need more books.

My problem is not a lack of books. My problem is a lack of doing stuff. So like maybe that that desire to that desire to just get one more piece of information. Oh, this one course will finally show me the thing. It’ll be the unlock to use that expression. You know, maybe not maybe you don’t need it.

Maybe just put it back on the Shelf. And don’t 

Ben: [00:35:29] Yeah, it’s like when I’m if I’m following around my oldest in the buffet line. Now, I’m going to I’m going to switch it to my kids. I’m like, I’m looking at his looking at his plate and I’m like. really like stuff is already falling off the sides and and you’re still okay.

I mean, you can’t you’re going to have to make a Believer out of me. I don’t I don’t see how you will fit all of that into that. It’s. 

Dan: [00:36:01] You’re like 40 minutes from now. You’re going to be a very you’re going to be a very unhappy boy because you you’re going to still be sitting there having to finish that plate.

Ben: [00:36:12] But then he goes and eats the whole thing and we’re all amazed. 

Dan: [00:36:15] Well. 

Ben: [00:36:16] So that’s where the that’s where the metaphor breaks down. 

Dan: [00:36:20] Yes. 

Ben: [00:36:22] Yeah, we and that I guess you know. That is is kind of connected to the planning thing. Like that can be become its own sort of drug because it’s it’s not bad to learn things.

You know, there’s nothing wrong with learning things. But where it gets us in trouble as is where we start to feel some relief from the pain of not taking action because we’re consuming something. 

Dan: [00:36:49] Yeah. 

Ben: [00:36:50] And that gets us into trouble. 

Dan: [00:36:52] does, you know, I put this in my notes and I think just just like I said about you know this idea.

Especially those of us that we spend time around all this self-improvement contents. That it’s very easy to just treat as by default more information is a good thing another book is a good thing. And so it’s difficult to even sort of contemplate. It almost feels like Blasphemous in a way to suggest that maybe you know, we don’t need more information.

We don’t need to know more about the thing we want to do but the thing that occurred to me and this is also kind of a difficult thing to confront but that’s the point of this episode is. In a lot of ways. reading the books and taking the courses and watching the videos is is just a way to fantasize about the thing that you wish you were doing, you know, it’s easy to it’s easy for me to like fantasize about being the novelist that I wish I were and I presume it’s easy for you to fantasize about being the filmmaker that you wish you were and everyone listening can extend that into their own life.

But the problem is fantasizing and fantasizing can play it like an important role, you know, it’s I’ve heard people say, you know, it’s worth coming up with a really solid mental picture of the thing that you want because that will drive you 

Ben: [00:38:21] Yeah. 

Dan: [00:38:23] If you’re spending a lot of time coming up with mental pictures and you are evidently not being driven to make things.

Then I think you’ve fallen into this trap this trap of fantasizing because fantasy is easy and its pleasant and actually making the thing you want to make a lot of the time involves work and work is often not easy or not pleasant or at least we’re afraid that that will be the case. 

Ben: [00:38:53] Yeah, it’s way more fun, man.

It is way more fun for me to open up Photoshop. And to you know find a picture of some guy with ripped abs and and pop my head on there. Then it is then it is to get on the ground and do crunches or you know, eat eat the kind of diet. That would allow me to get to the body fat percentage where I could actually see my abs again or for the first time.

Anyways, I’m I digress. 

Dan: [00:39:21] You do but since you brought it up, could you stop sending me those photos? 

Ben: [00:39:27] Really? Okay fine. Okay. Sorry. That was I get that’s inappropriate. I won’t do it anymore. 

Dan: [00:39:33] I just you know you 

Ben: [00:39:35] Just to be clear that is actually not happening. That’s completely 100% a joke the Dan made.

And sometimes I got to roll with it and then I’m like, why did I why? 

Dan: [00:39:46] I’m going to add it that explanation out. Okay, I think I think ego is is behind this and I’m not the first one to make that observation. Of course. I don’t mean that ego is behind you photoshopping your face onto people although that’s probably also true.

But you know, it’s easy to think of like being egotistical or having a big ego as thinking you’re better than everybody. But the thing I’ve heard that makes a lot of sense is that really what your ego wants is a stable identity. It wants the status quo, even if the status quo is bad like even if the status quo isn’t what you want.

So you brought this up on another show. I think it was that same episode for 49 which is epic people should go back and listen to it. But the idea that you know, one reason that people don’t do this stuff, even though they know they want to and they should and they know how is the people don’t really want success.

Which sounds ridiculous of course, but success implies changes and there is a party you there is a part of you that doesn’t want to change. And so, you know, if you think of your ego is being this like this little voice like a little little person a little smaller version of you standing on your shoulder whispering in your ear, you know, it’s the voice that says like keep fantasizing keep fantasizing about this thing someday.

It’ll be great won’t it won’t be great someday. When I am this thing that I want to be but meanwhile just keep watching Netflix or keep reading books. I keep listening to podcasts about how to make content. But but whatever you do don’t actually do it. Because that might change who you are. 

Ben: [00:41:30] Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, man, it’s we so underestimate how powerful that part of us is that doesn’t want to change. 

Dan: [00:41:41] Yeah. 

Ben: [00:41:42] even even people who say they’re comfortable with change, you know, like. Yeah, I moved around all the time when I was a kid, and I never had a problem with it. but they’re there is something really powerful of work and us that is trying to keep us doing the same thing because predictable.

things are safe. We when we know what to expect when we have a routines. That that starts to get rid of danger and that’s you know, that’s in our best interest. It keeps us from. like if we take the path that we’ve taken over and over again and we’ve never seen a bear. That’s great. We’re going to keep taking that path even though this other path would get us there much faster, but there might be a bear and you know, Let’s take the path where we know there’s no bear.

Dan: [00:42:41] Yeah, well and even and then that’s an illusion too because we don’t really know that there’s no bear. 

Ben: [00:42:47] Oh, yeah, there’s definitely a bear at some point on that path. There’s always a bear. 

Dan: [00:42:53] a long enough time line. There’s always a bear. I think that’s the takeaway from this episode. But but speaking of which a couple other points you sent.

Were minimum viable action and daily consistent action. And I think this is how we start to answer the question. What would it take? What would it take to actually make stuff? So what’s what are these two things? And what’s the difference? Like daily consistent. I think we’ve talked about consistent action a lot already.

Ben: [00:43:24] Yeah, and I was I was talking about daily consistent action as it connects to beliefs and so I definitely want to bring that back around but I think minimum viable action is a really good way to start this conversation because. I’m going to give you an example of something. I’m struggling with. I want to create content for myself.

I want to create daily content. And I want to talk specifically about kind of the the intersection of. raising a family and also pursuing your passion and trying to keep that in Balance trying to keep one from competing with the other like how does how does one actually do that? and I have I have a lot to say on that subject, but.

when. It’s kind of like, you know when you have too many choices. It’s hard to just pick one thing. It’s like, you know, like what’s your favorite song and there’s so many songs that you like and it’s hard to it’s hard to pick one. That’s like, oh I got it. When it’s just ambiguous in your head and so I thought well it’d be good to sit down and like look through some forums and see if I could find people asking real questions.

I like real questions lot that makes it a lot easier to give specific answers right? I should probably sit down at some point and write out a topic list and so in my head, I’m thinking I can’t take action on that. I can’t make content. Until I do the topic list session, right? But the minimum viable action is not I mean, I know the minimum viable action is not actually making the content the minimum viable action is not turning the camera on not necessarily.

But the minimum viable action is also not sitting down. And writing out my content list. My minimum viable action is. opening up my calendar and it may be my minimum viable action isn’t even scheduling that session. Maybe my minimum viable action is opening up the calendar app on my phone. Because for whatever reason and I you know, I think we get stuck sometimes trying to identify.

What’s what’s keeping us from moving forward or what’s keeping us from doing that thing when maybe the maybe the better question to ask is what’s what is the thing that I will do. And so like even as you’re listening to this even as you’re listening live if you’re stuck. And you can kind of trace the steps back to the bare minimum thing that you could do.

What is the one action that you will take even right now as you’re listening like. 

Dan: [00:46:38] Write a emphasis on the will take not what is the next action you will think about. And then maybe do in the future like what you’re saying minimum viable is what is the thing that you could just do right now as soon as as soon as the thought occurs to you?

Ben: [00:46:54] And and what that does is is action begets action movement begets movement. And so. if I open my calendar app. I’m more likely to look at my schedule. And if I look at my schedule, I’m more likely to see an opportunity. To actually schedule something and if I see an opportunity to schedule something I’m more likely to actually put it in there if I actually put it in there.

I’m more likely to do it and if I actually do it, I’m more like, you know, like you followed all the way down but. But it had to start with me doing this the simplest like the very first like you wouldn’t even call it step one you’d call it cept 0.1. You know, it’s like what is Step 0.1? that thing that you will do.

Dan: [00:47:53] And don’t overlook stuff that seems too trivial to even consider or you just take for granted will obviously I’ll open my calendar, but that doesn’t get me anywhere. So let me think about planning a topic. 

Ben: [00:48:04] Yeah, so you’re you’re you’re not doing something because you think if you don’t take. that action that’s you know, like three steps ahead then it doesn’t matter but but taking taking the smaller action.

Can get the ball rolling so that you will take the bigger action. And that’s that’s what I went. When I say minimum viable action. It’s really like which action is viable. Which which thing will you actually do?

Dan: [00:48:41] Yeah. I have a hard time with this notion to be honest because I can’t help thinking like like really this is what I need, you know, like I need to I need to treat myself like I like a broken arm and I can’t really open drawers. So I have to just be content with one tiny little do you know what I’m saying?

Like, but I mean that’s that’s that is ego popping back up and and worrying more about who I think I am. As opposed to just like by hook or by crook. I love that expression. I don’t really know what it means. But just doing just just getting the thing done and like who cares what it takes who cares what it takes to make the thing you care about just do whatever is necessary.

I mean obviously don’t you know, don’t do anything illegal, but we’re talking about we’re talking about just opening opening a nap. And making a putting a thing in your calendar, even if that feels trivial. 

Ben: [00:49:43] Right, and and so then it’s like. all right. I opened my calendar and while I’m here I may as well do the do this thing, but even if even if it doesn’t.

Lead you to the ultimate action you’d like to take like let’s say let’s see take the minimum viable action. And then you stopped short of actually scheduling something at least you’re at least you’re training yourself to look for K. What’s the thing that I will do and again, you got to be careful.

They’re not to let that turn into I feel good because I did something, you know. Like I want to when I want to work out in the morning, I have to get up super early but like the minimum viable action for me is setting my alarm the night before you know. because. I’d say 70 probably more like 80% of the time when I set the alarm the night before.

I end up at the gym somehow. And percentages percentages increase as I follow the action chain, so so the the minimum viable action is setting my alarm then I’ve already gotten myself 80% of the way there and then if actually getting out of bed is the next minimum viable action. Then I’ve gotten myself 85 percent of the way there and if I go and put my workout clothes on I’ve gotten myself 90% of the way there now if I go downstairs and I fill up my water bottle 95% by getting the if I get in the van 99% because you know, there’s a 1% chance.

I’ll hit a deer on the way there but. 

Dan: [00:51:35] Right to flip it around. It’s like the. If you don’t set an alarm, it’s easy to not get out of bed. 

Ben: [00:51:43] Right. 

Dan: [00:51:43] you set an alarm but our but stay in bed. It’s easy to stay in bed. If you get out of bed now, it’s not that likely that you’ll go back to bed. But you could if you put your gym clothes on well now it’s getting less and less likely that you’re going to get back into bed.

Right? It’s and it’s not even another way to look at it is is not increasing the probability that you’ll do the thing you want to do. It’s like decreasing the probability that you will do all of the other things. Right so this but this is this is something we’ve touched on before when we’ve talked about habits, right setting up your environment set you up for success.

But this is where I think we bring in this point about daily consistent action because it just it really does seem like again, we’re getting back into hacks and tips and tricks and we can know all these things and we can even do them and yet we still might not be making. The thing so, I mean, I’m wondering if that if the Habits Like if this is all we have to fall back on is Habits Like if you get yourself in the mode of getting up every day and going to the gym the larger questions of I think I want to be in better shape.

Why aren’t I working out? Kind of become irrelevant. 

Ben: [00:52:55] Well, and even even before like before we get into this specific idea of daily consistent action. the. It sounds funny to say this but like it kind of it kind of makes sense in a way to the reason. Ultimately, the reason you are not doing something as because you’re not doing something the reason you’re not taking action is because you’re not taking action.


and and that idea. I think really gets to it’s like you’re either you’re either stuck up here. You know right before taking action. It’s like yeah, I’m talking. Yeah. Like you’re standing on the edge of the diving board.


Dan: [00:53:59] hated I always hated that. 

Ben: [00:54:01] yeah, I’ll gosh can you feel can you feel that? Can you can you feel the so high? Or even you know even just jumping into the pool in general, like if if you know that the water is really cold. 

Dan: [00:54:21] Well, I I feel like where you’re going with this is you can stand on the side of the pool reading books about.

How to deal with diving into cold water or thinking about all the reasons or repeating affirmations to yourself, but nothing will cause you to have dove into the pool except diving into the pool this sounds ridiculous because it’s like tautological but. 

Ben: [00:54:44] Or somebody could push you. 

Dan: [00:54:46] I guess you shouldn’t push people into pools been that’s I don’t want people to take that away from from this episode.

Ben: [00:54:53] It’s so funny though. Okay, sorry. 

Dan: [00:54:55] Shenanigans, but now it’s you know that the reason you’re not making something is because you’re not making something sounds almost insulting because it’s so obvious but I think there is another trap that we get ourselves into is the Trap of trying to figure things out.

Try trying to figure ourselves out. Why aren’t I doing this thing? Does it really matter to me? Why maybe I’ll sit down and I’ll try to think all the way through it and I’ll try to you know, come up I say that kind of dismissively it’s not that that introspection is bad, but I think introspection just like too much planning becomes addictive and it eventually takes the place of actually doing the thing because again trying to figure out why I’m not working on a novel.

Will not cause a novel to have been written. The only thing that will cause a novel to have been written is me writing it. 

Ben: [00:55:54] Yeah. 

Dan: [00:55:56] So there’s a steep. There’s a steeply steeply declining, you know Returns on me sitting here trying to figure out why I’m not doing it. 

Ben: [00:56:07] Yeah. 

Dan: [00:56:08] spend that time doing it that sounds dismissive or two simple, but but maybe it’s not.

Ben: [00:56:14] You gather a lot more data from action? and 

Dan: [00:56:19] Yeah. 

Ben: [00:56:20] and much more accurate data, so when you. Jump off the diving board. If you’ve never done it before you go up to the high dive you’ve never done it before. Your your brain is feeding you all kinds of information and trying to trying to contextualize.

Like other experiences and Like Houses similar. How do you even measure that distance? Can you even imagine yourself jumping off? Maybe you’ve seen other kids doing it and so like that that kind of goes in there, too. But but all of that information is it like it doesn’t even hold a candle. To the Fidelity of the information that you have after you actually jump.

Because then you know how it feels the how it feels to fall through the air how it feels to hit the water the temperature of the water and how it feels for the water to shoot up your nose, you know, like. 

Dan: [00:57:26] This 

Ben: [00:57:26] know it’s awful. 

Dan: [00:57:28] triggers, man.

Ben: [00:57:33] and that’s that’s the thing like you you think. Well now I don’t know. I just think we’re not aware. I think that I think that our brain tricks us into thinking that we can understand. That we can actually figure out why we’re not taking action we can we can solve the problems in the roadblocks that we may or may not encounter before we actually do something.

Dan: [00:58:03] Yeah, but it just becomes another excuse to not do it. 

Ben: [00:58:08] Right. because the the real stuff the good stuff actually comes from from doing and and so going back to this daily consistent action. Another another way to say that is show up every day. It’s. And combine that with the minimum viable action, like maybe showing up every day doesn’t necessarily mean you have to produce a piece of content every day or you have to write a paragraph for your book everyday, like maybe maybe showing up every day is.

like make it make it the smallest thing that you need to actually show up every day. And then I think what happens over time is when we make that commitment. However, small it is. The showing up in the consistency allows that to grow it allows our action to grow. It allows our our tolerance for taking action to grow.

and and that’s what I’ve found is is. when I do finally take action and I and I do that consistently. I feel that I can over time I can start to feel the momentum of that. And then what was what felt like oh, that would be a big step, you know, like what felt like was going to be a big step eventually.

Feels easy and natural and like oh this yeah. I’ve got that part of it now I can go on to focusing on bigger things.

Dan: [00:59:53] Now it’s just something you do. 

Ben: [00:59:57] Yeah, but you the take 30 days to better writing because and and I’ll confess I asked Sean in the last episode not to bring it up because I didn’t want to tell people that I had committed to five minutes. Dan I committed to five minutes of daily writing and I didn’t even stick to that.

Because that was. 

Dan: [01:00:23] how that’s how it 

Ben: [01:00:25] was more than my minimum viable action. So I need to I need to find out what that is. Maybe maybe writing for 30 days straight isn’t my minimum viable action right now, and that’s okay. I need to figure out what that is so that I can work up to that. 

Dan: [01:00:44] Well, my thinking is that you’re only going to figure out you’re not going to figure out what that is by sitting down and having a thinking session about what my minimum viable action is.

Like. Maybe you are but maybe that’s just a trick 

Ben: [01:00:56] It’s true. 

Dan: [01:00:56] find that action is 

Ben: [01:00:58] Getting So Meta. 

Dan: [01:01:00] Well, yeah, it’s getting metal. But this episode is kind of all about how in our heads we keep ourselves wound around the axle. That’s another weird metaphor. I’m not sure I understand where we just we don’t do stuff.

We just spend all our time thinking about why we’re not doing the stuff you talked about. Daily consistent action and for me I’ve gone through these periods with this book. I’m writing we’re like. I mean, I wrote 50 thousand words at some point between this last December and now but there were these big gaps where I didn’t do anything and right now I’m kind of in the middle of one of those gaps.

And if I if I really think about it, I think the difference was when I was when I got stuff done it’s because I was everyday kind of going okay. I got to spend at least a little time doing this and and I had done the planning and I had done enough to know what I should do next. But then I was actually doing it.

So we’ve said this but I don’t think it’s easy. I don’t think it’s actually easy to know when have I done enough planning and when have I not done enough, I think that’s trial and error, but at the very least if you’re if you’re planning and planning and planning and it doesn’t seem to be resulting in taking action.

It might be time to stop planning and just start doing stuff. I mean I say that mostly to myself because I think that’s that might be my answer your answer might be slightly different, but but that’s probably part of it. 

Ben: [01:02:35] Yeah, and I get what you’re saying about overthinking the minimum viable action thing too because if you.

if you try to like it’s it’s just the same thing if you’re if you’re just trying to sit there and figure that out. You’re not Gathering as much information about what’s really holding you back. And so it’s like okay that didn’t work. So I’m going to scale back and I’m going to do the thing that I should do before that and I’m just going to do it.

I’m not going to think about what that is, or if I need to come back a few more steps. It’s like keep. keep attempting action until something sticks and then let it grow from there. I feel like that’s kind of this kind of the approach that keeps you from being too cerebral about it.

Dan: [01:03:32] Maybe I keep I keep falling into this like mind Loop where I think what I’m trying to say is like don’t think about it just do it and then but then I keep coming back and saying but but you know at some point you’ve got you have to direct yourself like like for me with writing if I don’t think about what I’m going to read I just sit down and brain dump and brain dumping is fine and it might be useful but similarly I could do that 700 days in a row and I wouldn’t have a book.


So again, I have a real hard time being prescriptive here because I don’t feel like I’ve figured this out. I feel like I’ve just got the question and I’m turning it over and over. 

Ben: [01:04:12] Yeah, so. so there I mean to write a book. It’s the it’s the same thing like you there. There are things that are essential and there are things that are not essential but your book does need a subject.

Dan: [01:04:30] Yes, and it needs an outline and it needs it needs, you know bones it needs a structure. But but yeah the path. 

Ben: [01:04:39] The path to. finding that topic and and the path to getting Clarity in your thoughts enough Clarity where you could sit down and write an outline could be that for a year you brain dump every day.

You know, like don’t don’t discount. What seems like a waste of time just just like, you know earlier in the chat. We were talking about the idea of like whether or not something is valuable. So yeah, you can’t know that but lets you know, what if you put something out there and nobody sees it.

Nobody likes it. Nobody comments on it. Nobody says oh that was so helpful. Was that worthless? Well, no because. it gave you an opportunity to put your thoughts and ideas into words about something and the more you do that the more clarity you get the more clarity you have the easier it is to take action the easier it is to know what to do.

And how to say it and you know, like I feel like I feel like things aren’t things aren’t wasted. 

Dan: [01:05:55] Yeah, that’s that’s a good point though that things aren’t wasted because it’s it’s super easy to to think. Until I until I can produce something that’s good enough. It’s pointless, right? Like this is just a waste.

The problem is you’ll never produce anything good until you without producing lots of stuff. That’s bad. Right like like hey, what you think is good or bad is not necessarily what another person will think is good or bad but beyond that. In in between you and your best work is a gigantic towering mountain of not your best work, right like by definition and a lot of a lot of that work won’t even come close a lot of that work.

Is going to suck. And like maybe it shouldn’t even be on the internet, but unfortunately, it’s 2019. And so, 

Ben: [01:06:56] No, it 

Dan: [01:06:57] kind of got to you got to put a lot of stuff 

Ben: [01:06:59] should be on the internet. 

Dan: [01:07:01] Okay, but this is the thing if you don’t if you don’t ever make it because you’re so worried about whether it’s good enough or not.

Then you could spend 20 years wanting to write a novel. Without ever actually doing it. 

Ben: [01:07:20] Yeah.

Dan: [01:07:23] You know really like I have a friend who’s a he’s a very good illustrator, but like you good luck finding out about that because he’s got the perfectionism thing that so many of us do where it’s just like wasn’t good enough. So.

You know where he Compares it to Compares himself to the people who are the best in the world. I shouldn’t you know, I’m not trying to use them as an example behind his back. But but it’s it’s so illustrative illustrative, you know of how I roll and how maybe you roll. 

Ben: [01:08:03] I’m going to pronounce it a luster different from now on.

Dan: [01:08:06] I like it. The Lester t”v think it’s the way to do it. I think if people take nothing else away from this episode and I’m not sure there is anything else to take it should be the pronunciation of illustrative.

What do you think? Do you think this show do you think this show? Well, does it even need to be helpful? Is it enough to confront a quick question that that. But I’m not sure we know the answer to what would it take. 

Ben: [01:08:34] So are you asking me was it worth? Turning on our microphones and recording a podcast episode if this didn’t help people.

Dan: [01:08:44] Huh good point because because I do I think it was worth it. I think even if no one is helped by this episode. It’s worth it because this is episode 455 of the Champs West. to episode doesn’t even exist of the podcast that you’re not even starting because you don’t know if it would be right like that’s the difference the difference is I think the difference is is letting go of the results of your work.

and only doing the work does that make sense the way I put that like. 

Ben: [01:09:28] Yeah. It’s it’s so hard now at this point because it does really get meta like getting to the end of the show. We always we always do this kind of value judgment right of like did we say enough to be helpful? Did we say enough to unlock something for people?

Dan: [01:09:45] Was this a good show? Is this the worst episode ever? 

Ben: [01:09:49] And I feel like almost we’d be doing the subject of the show a disservice if we tried too hard to judge. The helpfulness of. the contents of the show. like that like it like that’s a little bit hypocritical. 

Dan: [01:10:10] It might be a at the very least. I am satisfied with this the fact that we have now.

On the last few shows that you and Shawn did were a great playbook for how and why and where and when and what to make but for all those of us who eagerly devour that Playbook and then just go back to not doing stuff. It’s worth having at least sat with the question. What would it take because for for everyone wherever they’re at?

The answer is going to be different. What would it take? Right like if we are being held back then for each of us something slightly different some combination of factors. That are almost certainly mostly in our heads, but they are all slightly different. It’s holding us back. and it might just be enough to listen to the soothing sound of our voices contemplating that for.

An hour or two or however long it’s been I mean that might be the best we have to give. And what matters is what matters is that we gave it? 

Ben: [01:11:27] Yeah, so now it’s your turn listener to your turn to give it. 

Dan: [01:11:35] Nice, it’s your turn to give it. That’s perfect band you want to wrap this up? 

Ben: [01:11:41] Dan where can people go to find Us online.

Dan: [01:11:44] You can go to Sean And when you go there you can become a member, which is great because not only do you get to tune in to live shows like this, but you get access to the community. We have amazing conversations you get access to all our courses $7,500 worth every time we make something new it ends up in the membership like the recent presale profits course, which I’m a big fan of.

Like the classic 30 days to better writing which we’re going through now in October is a community. That’s the kind of stuff you get when you become a member. So go to Sean check it out. It’s a good time. 

Ben: [01:12:23] Yes, please do. 

Dan: [01:12:26] And then where can they find you online? 

Ben: [01:12:29] You can find me online at bent and I’m also at been Tolson on all of the things and what about you Dan?

Dan: [01:12:37] That’s right. You can find me at DJ and I am at DJ Jacobson author on Instagram. and most of the other things. 

Ben: [01:12:48] It shows her. 

Dan: [01:12:50] Yeah, good show sir.

Ben: [01:13:35] So I mentioned something in the pre-show or did it did I mention in the pre-show or did I mention at the beginning of the show? 

Dan: [01:13:43] Either way, you asked me to remind you about it at the end of the show and instead you’ve remembered on your. 

Ben: [01:13:49] Well, you know, it’s funny. I remembered that there is something you’re supposed to remind me about but I can’t remember what it was that you were supposed to remind me about.

Dan: [01:13:58] Well, that’s fine. Because now that you’ve reminded me to remind you about the thing, I do know what it was about. It was a funny story about answering machines, I think. 

Ben: [01:14:07] Yes. Should we save that for the after after show or should we give it to the people in the after show? 

Dan: [01:14:15] I think the people who’ve been listening to this episode have been very patient and they deserve a little treat.

So let’s do it. 

Ben: [01:14:23] Now I feel we’re worried that it’s not going to be you know, like it’s not going to be funny enough like I’ve over 

Dan: [01:14:29] enough, right? You’re overthinking it. 

Ben: [01:14:31] over-promised and now I’m going to under-deliver. 

Dan: [01:14:35] You’re getting met about the show topic is what you’re 

Ben: [01:14:38] So I got tired of robocalls.

Do you get robocalls there in Canada? 

Dan: [01:14:44] doing. No, not to the from what I’ve heard. I get like maybe a couple 1/4 and you guys get like six a day. 

Ben: [01:14:53] Yeah, it’s bad. 

Dan: [01:14:55] Yeah, it sounds really bad. 

Ben: [01:14:57] It’s bad. So, you know, I was getting I was getting Robo calls and it was. Filling up my voice mail which you know as so at some point I decided I’m going to take the badge, you know, the notification badge off of my phone.

So when I when I open up my phone and look at the phone app, it doesn’t show me how many missed calls I have or how many, you know, I don’t see that so it can’t stress me out because I hate you know, like. It stresses you out to know that there’s some so I just have a specific time of day when I check it.

But even that was getting overwhelming like I don’t mind seeing the missed calls, but my voicemail box was filling up. It was terrible as it was just like. It seemed like every other week it was full. And so so I thought well I’m going to. I’m going to leave a super long. Like I’m going to change my outgoing.

I’m going to leave the super long thing. So that if somebody does legitimately try to get ahold of me. They’re not, you know, like they know that I don’t really check this. So I even said in my outgoing. I was like, I’m going to be honest with you. I don’t check my voicemail. I get too many spam calls.

I treat this more like an email inbox anyway, and I might check it like. Once a week or something you really want to get a hold of me. The best way to do it is to email me or to text me and I just left it at that. I didn’t give any further instructions because I figure if somebody really wants to get a hold of me and there’s somebody I want to hear from they probably have my information, right?

So I’m feeling I’m feeling pretty good about that. And my brother calls me one day and he says yeah, I tried to call you the the other day and I heard your outgoing and I actually sat and listened to the whole thing. I left like it was like 2 minutes long. And he’s like, but you know, I’m your brother.

So I’m going to leave you a voicemail anyway, so I get to the very end of the thing and it beeps and then it says or doesn’t beep it says this voice mailbox is full.

Dan: [01:17:17] So he listened to the whole thing just so he could leave you a snarky message and then he was foiled. 

Ben: [01:17:23] Yep, he was going to give it to me too, but I got the better of him and I still I still have not deleted all of those. Maybe these robocalls leave like 30 second long 60 second long messages. 

Dan: [01:17:41] It’s it’s it’s ridiculous.

It’s kind of ridiculous because they it breaks it essentially breaks the medium like you can’t use the phone. You can’t use voice mail anymore because it’s just been overwhelmed. 

Ben: [01:17:53] Yeah, it’s dead. I’m just going to call it. I’m saying it right now. If you call and leave a voicemail like at some point in the near future, you can expect to never hear back from that person.

Because it’s dead. 

Dan: [01:18:10] Now it is that’s right. No, that’s right. People people listening to this after show. No, this is I want to make sure people understand this been people listening to this after-show have heard the first. Pump It blast announcing it voicemail is dead. You heard it here first.