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This episode of the seanwes podcast comes from a call Sean and Dan had while Sean is on his Sabbatical year. We decided this segment was interesting enough to record and edit into an episode of the podcast. Enjoy! Ben and Dan will be back with a regular episode next week.

Sean and Dan discuss a question implicit in the topic of this podcast: Who should, in fact, start a business? And why would they want to?

Entrepreneurship gets a lot of press. Starting and running a business is portrayed as more than glamorous: it seems like the only way to escape a lifetime of unsatisfying employment and “live out our dreams”.

But what does it really take to succeed at running a business, and withstand the workload and responsibilities required? As a longtime business owner, Sean shares his opinions, and we discuss the benefits of *not* being “Number One” in an enterprise.

In the end, the person who succeeds at the challenge of building a business will need to push through resistance. They’ll need to find a passion strong enough that they don’t give up when the going gets tough… and then stays that way.

Links and Resources Mentioned
Episode Transcript

Note: This transcript of the episode was machine-generated by Descript and has not been edited for correctness. It’s provided for your convenience when searching. Please excuse any errors.

Sean: [00:00:00] Maybe you are happy with $70,000 a year, but you have bigger ambitions, a personal computer on every desk in every home eradicating world hunger. You might need resources to achieve goals of such magnitude, and it would make sense that you’d want to pursue a career that didn’t have limited upside because it would provide you with the resources to achieve your goals.

Dan: [00:00:41] The, the way I had phrased it was why would you even want to start a business? And I guess the, the sort of conceit of the topic was, I think a lot of. I can relate to this. I think a lot of people go, I have a creative passion that I want to spend my life pursuing. And because of the information that’s out there, the messages I’ve received, I think that the only way to do that is to become something called an entrepreneur.

But the reality of starting and running a business has little, if nothing to do with, you know, making. Pottery or writing books or any other thing you actually want to do. Right. So I think a lot of us can get hung up on this. Like, got to start a business, got to start a business, got to start a business.

Maybe that isn’t actually the best way to pursue your creative desires. I mentioned, I mentioned this to Ben and he said he, he’d been having a conversation with Corey when Corey was in town.

Sean: [00:01:46] Cory Miller.

Dan: [00:01:47] Yeah, Corey Miller about like how much happier this is. This is me paraphrasing what Ben told me, but it sounded to me like how much happier Corey is having a job and like doing creative stuff on the side than he was when he was trying to build a brand.

Sean: [00:02:01] Yeah. Yeah, I definitely think. There needs to be more conversations about that, which it’s hard to know exactly how to phrase it, but you’ve, you’ve heard, you’ve probably heard it put in different ways, but here’s one. Not everyone is cut out to be an entrepreneur. Uh, and most, I would say most people are not, not, they’re not cut out to be number one.

I actually think the best, the best place is number two. Cause I think you get half the pressure and 80% of the the windfall, like the influence, the accolades, the, you know, financial benefits of being like a number two either either in a company overall or even just like within a department. That seems like a pretty sweet spot, but a lot of people feel like they have to be number one.

They have, because entrepreneurship is like this. This thing. It’s having its moment right now. It’s cool to be an entrepreneur

Dan: [00:03:07] Well, th yeah, there’s that, but then there’s also, I think just the tyranny of numbers, because when you say not everyone’s cut out to be number one, a lot of people hear the syllables, number one, and think that what it means is good.

Sean: [00:03:24] like you’re a loser if you’re

Dan: [00:03:26] Yeah, you’re a loser if you’re

Sean: [00:03:27] Man that’s like, you know, the captain goes down with the ship, right?

Dan: [00:03:32] Well, listen, everything you just said, Sean. I was like, ask me in a year, and I’ll tell you if you’re right, because that’s exactly the position that I’m in, isn’t it? I’m number two and Holy crap is an easier than what I perceive your job to be.

Sean: [00:03:47] Oh yeah. I mean,

the, the, just the amount of pressure. That you have as number one EV. Everything is your responsibility. Everything. When anyone else makes a state a mistake, it’s your fault every single time. Anything that’s going wrong with the business, it’s your responsibility and anyone you delegate to, even if you give them the responsibility, it ultimately comes back to you when they make a mistake.

That’s your fault. You have to own it, all the stress, all the weight, everything.

Dan: [00:04:25] Well look, and I mean in a, in a real way, because I’m saying, obviously I’m like, I’m not gonna, I’m not going to, but if I buried your business over the next year, I’d go get a job and you would be out of business.

Sean: [00:04:36] And not only would I be out of business, it would be my fault that I was out of business.

Dan: [00:04:41] Well. Yeah, exactly. And I like a lot of really bad leaders ignore that. They think what I do is I hire people and now everything is their fault. So you know, in terms of saying not everyone is cut out to be the number one to be the entrepreneur. Part of it is for, for starters, you have to recognize what you just said.

And accept it, which is I’m starting a thing and it’s 100% on me. Even when I’ve hired a team, it’s still on me.

Sean: [00:05:10] There’s this . Just so much to it, like it’s, it’s a hundred percent responsibility. It’s 100% selflessness. It’s a hundred percent leadership, but not like the cool. I’m number one leadership. I’m talking about humility. Like if you, if you really are a good leader, you are a servant to the people underneath you, which is totally counterintuitive.

You want to be the big boss, but really. You, you serve your employees, like your team members are the people that you have to put ahead of yourself. So it’s, it’s like a, it’s a humility thing, but then it’s also a stress thing. The people you pay, they can kind of be off the clock sometimes, like they have work time and then they have non-work time.

But. You have all work time like, and may, maybe, maybe you found a way for this to be healthy and balanced. And I’m, I’m still trying to find that way. I’m on that journey. Um, I’m doing the sabbatical thing. I’ve been doing this medical thing. I’ve tried to put in more reasonable boundaries. And this is when I work, and this is when I don’t, but for the better part of a decade, I had two modes.

Mode one was working, mode two was feeling guilty about not working. And put another way, like thinking about the business there. There was no time where I wasn’t thinking about the business. Like what if, what if the servers go down? What if we don’t make payroll next week? What if next month’s revenue forecast is incorrect?

What if the month after next is correct? What are we doing? What’s our next promotion? What, what’s working? What’s not working? Why isn’t it working? Are we doing the right things? You know. It’s just so much, and that’s, that is not, it’s, it’s most of the time it’s not fun. The only thing that’s fun is the fact that, you know, the hard work you’re doing is going towards your dream and not someone else’s dream.

But that doesn’t make it easy all the time. In fact, most of the time it’s not easy. Most of the time it’s not fun. It’s just how you contextualize the not fund. And that’s why not everyone’s cut out for it. So, so here’s going, going back to this like, uh, you know, number two is, is pretty sweet. Similarly, working in a job can be really good, and a lot of people actually prefer that.

They don’t want all the responsibility. They don’t want all the stress. They, they want to be able to feel. The water in the shower, hitting their body and not just be completely numb with business problems that are all their fault, all their responsibility. Sometimes you want to just clock into a job, clock out, live your life, spend time with your family, have hobbies, get paid.

It’s really, really nice to be able to just clock out and turn off that side of things. The only thing is like you have limited upside.

Dan: [00:08:22] The limited upside for me. I think the, to the extent that if I ever do start my own thing, it’s, it’s, there is a part of me, and maybe it’s pride, but there’s a part of me that. Doesn’t like the limited upside. Like at my last job I was, I was very well compensated and I worked there about eight years and my salary roughly doubled over those eight years from quite like decent, decent, upper-middle-class salary to excellent upper middle class salary.

But I remember looking at it and it’s like, it’s not like I need all the money in the world, but there’s still a little part of me that went, but they’ll never double it again. Like, it doesn’t matter how good I am or how much value I add to this company. There’s no way they’ll ever pay me 10 times this much, and there’s a part of me that loves the idea of all of my blood, sweat, and tears.

I get to take back as returns. That is very compelling, but as you said, it isn’t easy or fun. If you want easier, fun, this is the wrong way to go about it, right? Like if you want easy and fun, get a job that’s easy and fun.

Sean: [00:09:30] I see what you’re talking about. Branching off kind of into two to two points that we could maybe discuss. One is the idea of enough, and then the other is like. Maybe maybe your motives for unlimited upside are not entirely about trying to fill a void in your soul. So let’s, let’s go with the first one.

This idea of enough. So you, you, you, you might think, I want to be an entrepreneur. I want to run my own business because my, my upside isn’t limited. My salary earning potential is not capped. Therefore, I can theoretically earn an unlimited amount and I work harder and I make more money. Okay. So you’re looking at that and you’re thinking that’s a pretty compelling reason to start a business.

And certainly it is. But to what end, what are you trying to achieve? And for a lot of people, they are trying to fill a void in themselves. It’s not actually like, it’s not like they. Need to make $300,000 or 1.2 million or 15 million. It’s not that they need to make that, but they think they do to be happy to prove it to someone, you know, friends, family, strangers that they don’t even care about.

Dan: [00:10:56] their dad.

Sean: [00:10:57] Yeah, exactly. Like, but, but they think that they need that to fill some kind of void. Okay. On the other end, it’s, it’s possible that maybe you’re not trying to do that. Maybe you’re not actually trying to fill a void. Maybe you are happy with $70,000 a year. Um, but you have bigger ambitions. You want to, you know, leave a Mark on the world, so to speak.

Or like you, you just, you have a vision of like. A personal computer on every desk in every home. You know, like, like people have certain visions or eradicating, um, world hunger. You know, it could be altruistic, it could be, it could be whatever, right? But yeah. Yeah. You, you might need resources to achieve goals of such magnitude, and, and it would make sense that you’d want to pursue a career that didn’t have limited upside.

Because it would provide you with the resources to achieve your goals. So I suppose it comes down to what is the scale of the goal you have and we’re taking it as a given. I would certainly recommend that you don’t, you don’t make career decisions based on filling some kind of void in your soul, although that’s easier said than done.

Dan: [00:12:16] Easier said than done. I can give you my reason if you want. Want to have it as an example.

Sean: [00:12:23] What’s your reason.

Dan: [00:12:26] My reason is ongoing security or to put that another way over time, I would like to, if not, earn more and more and more, maintain a lifestyle that I enjoy while working less and less and less. And the only way to do that is to build up assets because assets unhook your time from your income. So the traditional way that people are encouraged to do this as to is to trade their time for income in the form of a job, but to put part of that income into some kind of financial instrument that will appreciate and value, uh, over time.

Right. So that by the time you’re. Uh, agenda, you know, generation or two ago. By the time you’re 65 or for us, probably by the time you’re 115, you’ll be able to stop working because you’ll have this thing that is throwing off enough through, you know, compounding. There’s this thing that’s throwing off enough, uh, money that you can just live off of that without having to work for it.

Right. You’ve built up an asset at that point. And so my, my goal has kind of become to build assets. And you know, they can be some combination of financial. But the other thing that really draws me in is the idea of intellectual property. So this is among the reasons that writing books appeals to me, is that you write a book once and you hypothetically keep selling it indefinitely.

Sean: [00:13:57] Remember when I made you write a book?

Dan: [00:14:00] Ah, that was worse.

Sean: [00:14:02] Okay. I have some thoughts on this. Um, obviously it makes a lot of sense. Logically, you know, assets are good. You want assets, security, okay. Not having to work, but being able to maintain a certain lifestyle makes a ton of sense. Um. Through, through a little bit of therapy that I’ve done, I’ve kind of recognizing a little bit of myself in what you’re saying, although potentially I could be projecting, so feel free to push back on this.

But what I’m seeing only because I see it in myself is, um, it’s a F it’s a form of acting on a scarcity mindset that. That I th I think comes from points in your life or, or living through periods where resources were scarce and you don’t, you know, it, I don’t know, traumatic ma is probably strong, but it had some kind of effect on you to the point where you don’t want to go through that again and you want to prevent yourself from having to experience.

Scarce resources. The problem, at least I’ve found is there, even though you want to say that there is like, I’m comfortable with this certain lifestyle and you know, math, math, math, I can sustain it for this many years. This would be enough. You can rationalize it that way, but what I’ve found personally is there’s never enough money when you’re making it, when you’re making a decision based on.

Scarcity. When you’re operating from a standpoint of scarcity and trying to prevent it, there is never enough. Like you can name a figure, you can, you can chase after it, but the void, if we go back to that word, is still there.

Was that a lot? Was that too much?

Dan: [00:16:08] No, no. I’m composing my, I’m composing response. I’m trying what to be honest. So to get meta for a second, something I’m trying to do, Sean, that I noticed I do on podcast is normally when the other person stops talking, have already thought of what I want to say and I introduce it by going. So, um, yeah, that’s a good point.

And, and I’m trying to break myself of that, so I’m just kind of being silent. And then starting. My, the response. Um, but obviously that takes practice. You mentioned projecting, and then you said something about experiencing things in the past. So I can assume that you are referring to your own past because you know, your past and not mine, but so, so I think for myself, but, but what I see in what you said, I think for me it might not be, or, um, a response to past circumstances as anecdotal.

Like what I’ve been taught. And in terms of what I’ve been taught, it’s your ability to keep a roof over your head diminishes over time. Like, Oh, you know, God willing and the Creek don’t rise. We live to be 120 but even if we don’t, God willing and the Creek don’t rise, we can still put our, put our clothes on in the morning when we’re in our eighties but.

It’s a, you know, whether we can like earn an income using the skills that we still have at that age is a pretty open question. So that being the case, my, my drive to kind of build up assets is, is just based on, you know, what I see in the world is this idea that like, I’m 37 I really don’t think that by the time I’m 65 I’m going to have like an RRSP that can fund my.

Like will keep me, you know, keep me out of like a horrifying state sponsored care home situation. And I D like I don’t have kids that I, that I can move back in with. At least not right now. So honestly, a big drive behind assets is to try to give myself some kind of idea that my future self will be secure, which, which could be a form at which is, there’s a couple of things, I mean, could be a form of scarcity.

At the very least, it’s an attempt to predict the future, which is inherently problematic. Um, but I, I feel like for me, at least right now, and at least on the surface, that’s where the idea, that’s what motivates me.

Sean: [00:18:34] I think that makes a ton of sense. And I think it makes a sense to a lot of people who also want the same thing. And they might be thinking, so that’s why I want to run a business. Uh, but. You could very well work in a job for some company and also build assets. You don’t have to start from ground zero and build something from scratch.

Uh, that’s kind of like doing it on hard mode.

Dan: [00:19:05] Oh, absolutely. The, I mean, the easiest way is that that I’ve seen the easiest way is probably get a job that pays you as much as possible, but live on as little as possible and pour as much of your income as you can into relatively, you know, relatively predictably value increasing financial instruments.

Right.  at the very least, that’s a, that’s an item of popular wisdom. Like start with start when you’re 20 you put as much of your income as possible in the index funds and you’ll probably be okay as far as assets are concerned.

Sean: [00:19:42] So what other angles do we want to look at? This question of, should you start a business with.

Dan: [00:19:51] There may be more to say on alternatives, right? Like we touched on the idea that if you feel like the only legitimate thing to do is be number one, consider that number two is not so bad and a job is not so bad. But I mean, maybe we want to go deeper.

Sean: [00:20:06] I mean, we’re not ruling out, uh, number four or number five either. It was just one example.

Dan: [00:20:13] No, no. Well, exactly. And similarly, we’re not ruling out number 16,856 at a place with like awesome benefits, like, you know, but, but we could get more into, you know, what is there to say about that? Can we, can we tell people if, if you. Can we point people in the direction of, if you’re sitting there at a job and your mindset is, I hate this because I’m not running my own business, can we help people adjust their mindset too?

I don’t hate this. This is all right.

Sean: [00:20:43] Well or I hate this for other reasons, or I hate this and there’s a different solution, like get another job. Is my recommendation. If you hate your job, get another job. Don’t just immediately think I need to start my business. Cause that’s what’s cool right now. Um, yeah, go

Dan: [00:21:01] It’s not a, yeah, no, I was just going to say exactly. I think there’s, there’s so many. I think the, it feels to me like human nature somehow inclines us towards dichotomies. They’re like. Well, you know, we talk or we call it all or nothing thinking where it’s, it’s always either one thing or other thing.

Sean: [00:21:18] Other extreme.

Dan: [00:21:19] Yeah. Other extreme as opposed to, well, there’s actually a whole con, and in fact, this is almost always the case. There’s a continuum of possibilities. Let’s consider many of them.

Sean: [00:21:32] Yeah. So someone may, maybe, maybe we should look at this from the perspective of how, how do I know if I’m cut out to start my own business and just off the top of my head, let me see. I mean if you, if you want even a reasonable chance of success. Again, this is unedited, so it’s not like I came up with a list and I really thought through this, but I’m just gonna give it to you out loud.

Dan: [00:22:01] Off the straight off the dome as they

Sean: [00:22:03] I think you need to be disciplined. I think you need to be a self starter. Um, and, and I guess, I don’t know if that’s just like a trait or maybe. Maybe it’s something that all of us possess. If it’s in a realm that we’re already passionate about, cause I, I would probably say if you just had to say yes or no, do you go in this bucket or not?

Am I a self starter? Am I disciplined? I would say yes, but there’s plenty of things for which I’m not disciplined because I don’t care. I don’t want to do those things. I’m not interested. I’m not passionate about those things. So, and again, I don’t know if, if I, as someone who let’s say is a self starter and disciplined, have things for which I am not, then it, it’s possible that someone who maybe doesn’t even consider themselves disciplined or a self starter has things for which they are.

And so you just haven’t found those things. This is my thinking out loud theory. If you, if you feel like you’re a lazy person, if you feel like you’re undriven undetermined, you’re not a self starter. I would submit to you that maybe you haven’t found the thing that gets you out of bed. And I, I think, I think we do have that.

I think all of us have that. It’s just a matter of whether or not we, we ever find it so. This is not to say like, all right, you don’t feel like you have this trait right now. You don’t feel like you’re driven right now. You should never start a business. But I, I’ll definitely say if you are considering starting a business around something that doesn’t make you feel that way, I would recommend against it.

Dan: [00:23:58] Hmm. I better put my novel back in the drawer then.

Sean: [00:24:03] Why is that?

Dan: [00:24:05] Well, it’s interesting because as you were talking, I was thinking, for me anyway, I have definitely found things about which I am passionate. However, I am not disciplined. And so I wonder if there’s two things I wonder, you know, to row two roads up the mountain, one of which is when you find the right thing, you will find that you are disciplined and.

Or when you, if it is not in your nature to be disciplined, you will, when you find the right thing, you will do whatever it takes to turn into a person who is disciplined. And I’m thinking of like, well, I mean, I, I guess I’m thinking of myself like I’m trying to build better habits. I, I did not find that like the thin, there’s a thing I really wanted to do.

I did not find that just because I found a thing I really wanted to do. I did it and I jump out of bed at five 30 every morning. But it does encourage me to try to develop the habit of jumping out of bed at five 30 in the morning. Whereas if I, if I didn’t have the thing at all, presumably I would be, I would find it easier to be satisfied with hitting the snooze button.

So, uh, so, and I could be wrong. It could be that, like, I’ve found a thing that I. You know, we’ve talked about this before. I might’ve found a thing I think I like, but I don’t really, and there’s some other as yet unidentified thing that perhaps in my life I will come across and it’ll change everything.

Like it’ll make me a different person. Who knows? But, so I guess what I’m saying is if you find a thing that you think you’re passionate about. And you’re not disciplined. Can you develop discipline? And if you can’t, that’s like double. Don’t start a business doing that thing.

Sean: [00:25:51] You recently bought a book. I happen to know because it was  my own, and since we’re not shipping any physical products during the year 2020. Which, which is when I’ll be on sabbatical. It was the last chance to get a hardcover copy of overlap. And uh, I think you S you texted me, you were like, why do I not have a copy of this?

Dan: [00:26:16] Well, I, I think I said in particular that. Thinking about it as like the limited collectors edition makes me think, wait, I should have like a signed copy of

Sean: [00:26:24] Oh yeah. Cause I said I wasn’t going to print. I have no plans to print more hardcover copies because. Dan, we’re doing, we’re processing a bunch of orders. Today I was watching, uh, Lacy was actually making some labels and one of them was going to Japan. It cost $33 to ship to Japan,

Dan: [00:26:46] Huh?

Sean: [00:26:47] $33 we sell the book for 39 free shipping.

The book itself, like hard costs, not including packaging labels, stickers, whatever else. We include $17. So you do the math. It’s not, it’s not very sustainable. It’s not economical. We don’t make money on the book, but it was my, it was my vision. It was my dream to have this foil stamped cloth bound hardcover.

And I made it and exist and it’s great. And.

Dan: [00:27:17] But now it’s time to be quit of it.

Sean: [00:27:20] Yeah, if I do more, I’ll probably do like trade paperback or something. So I had mentioned that, you know, you can think of it as like a collector’s edition. And then when I said that you were like, Ooh, I want one. And I said, all right, Dan, you can make a coupon and I’ll send you one. Just go, just do the checkout and we’ll, it’ll all happen magically.

I bring this up because this book that you ordered, Dan, uh, has something related to what we’re talking about, which is, I said. You won’t know if you love something until you’re on the other side of resistance. So this, on this idea of passion, and then the book also has a chapter on discipline, which is nice.

Um, well let me just read this like a few sentences, a couple of paragraphs. Being passionate about something doesn’t mean there will never be times where you don’t enjoy the work. There will always be challenges to overcome. But passion will fuel your drive to persevere against all odds. When you feel like giving up and you’re questioning everything, passion will carry you through.

The rational side of your brain might tell you that a challenge is too hard or that you should quit. Passion will help you be unreasonable when you need to be so you can persist when all other signs are telling you to give up. That’s when you know you found your passion. You cannot know whether or not you’re passionate about something until you’ve faced and overcome resistance.

Passion is found in the doing. You cannot be passionate about the idea of something if you have not done it. If you have not encountered resistance, if you have not continued until you’ve overcome resistance, you are not passionate about that passion.

Dan: [00:29:07] What popped into my head is as a sort of self litmus test. If someone says to you, you know, if you’re not really passionate about this, you shouldn’t start a business, and your reaction to that is, I guess I shouldn’t start a business, then you shouldn’t start a business.

One of, I can’t remember where you put it this way, I think it was on a podcast, can’t remember if it’s in the overlap book, but it’s, it’s one of these things that sounds tautological.

And that’s why I like it so much. I think you’re talking about needing to be unreasonable, and you said something like this, being on reasonable means being not reasonable. And so there’s this level of like, and so this is, this is something I want to get to in the other topic. I had tossed your way about giving yourself permission to be weird.

So open loop, but. Well, I think probably one of the things that’s certainly required for starting a business is at the point where normal people, let’s just say would, would go, I can’t be bothered. You must continue to be bothered. I mean, look, law, so I’ll put this in my own terms. I’ve had plenty of self doubt about writing books because I’ve spent months.

Not writing a book. However, my attitude towards that hasn’t been, I guess I’m just not going to do it. It’s been, what’s the next thing I’m going to try to get myself to write this book, like I’m not giving up.

Sean: [00:30:42] You’re going through resistance, but you’re not, you’re not turning back from it.

Dan: [00:30:48] Yeah. And at least for my own journey, and anyone who hears us talking about this can. Whole, you know, see if they’re the same. What differentiates Dan of the last year or two from Dan of the previous 20 years is the not turning back from resistance cause he, you know, used to be, I’d sit down with a, a Microsoft word document and type a couple hundred words of a story I was super excited about and then stop and then never do it again.

Sean: [00:31:21] There’s a lot of things we do for random reasons, all kinds of reasons. We just find ourselves doing them. Someone else go to us into doing it. We said we would do it where everyone else is doing it, and we’ll usually go along until we encounter resistance, whatever that looks like, and then we stop like, okay, I’ve had enough of this.

No more of that. Because we don’t, we don’t care about the thing. We don’t feel strongly, we’re not passionate, but in other areas where we are passionate, it’s not like because you’re passionate about something, it’s always going to be easy. It’s never going to be hard. That’s not the way it works. If you’re passionate about something and you feel like, well, Sean, I just, it is easy all the time.

I haven’t encountered resistance. Okay, great. Then, then you’re early and it’s coming. Just wait. It’s coming. There’s going to be a day where something about this isn’t fun. You’re going to encounter resistance, but if you really are passionate about it, you will see things through. The passion will carry you through to the other side of resistance.

And, and you can’t know if you’re truly passionate until you’re on the other side of resistance. You can only look back and see what you’ve gone through. And then you can know, you can’t know before you’ve, you’ve, you’ve, you know, got through that resistance.

Dan: [00:32:51] I couldn’t help thinking that you can make exactly the same observation of interpersonal relationships, but that’s a whole other a hundred podcasts.

Sean: [00:32:59] Mm.

So that was really, that was only one thing off the top of my head. Um Hmm. That was, that was an interesting productive rabbit trail.

Dan: [00:33:12] It was, you have a lot to say, Sean, have you ever thought about doing some kind of show.

Sean: [00:33:17] Yeah. Should do that.

Dan: [00:33:21] Hmm. Put that on your bucket list.

Sean: [00:33:25] That’s a good wrap point.

Dan: [00:33:28] I know. This is where we start the after show.

Sean: [00:34:13] Well, I thought that occurred to me while we were doing this is like, Hey, now that it’s sabbatical, Sean, we could just do like one of these a day till the end of December, and then you can schedule them out.

Dan: [00:34:25] I mean, technically that’s true. You’re going to need going to need to get some, uh. You’re going to have to commission a piece of show art. That’s the word, sabbatical, and the call is in italics.

Sean: [00:34:37] People still won’t get it.

Dan: [00:34:40] No, but you and I will, and that’s all that matters.

Sean: [00:34:43] You know that. You know that the story of like what happened with Corey that one time.

Dan: [00:34:48] I think you explained it to me, which is you said like sabbatical and he was, he just thought you said sabbatical and it was lost on him.

Sean: [00:34:55] Yeah, it was sabbatical, a question Mark, and then nothing ever happened because he thought I just said sabbatical, like, what are you talking about, Sean?

Dan: [00:35:06] That’s a tragic story.