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Since YouTube launched in 2005, online video has taken over the world. It might be hyperbolic to compare this to the invention of the printing press… but, then again, it might not.

Quite simply, video is the medium by which a growing amount of the world’s information is consumed. For a creative person, someone who wants to share their message and their art with the world, creating videos gives you an incredible opportunity.

But there’s a problem: For most of us, appearing on camera does not come naturally.

Have you tried making videos—or at least thought about it—only to freeze up when that camera lens is pointed at you? Do you find yourself stuck, imagining the endless crowd staring at you, just waiting for you to mess up?

Yup, it happens to the best of us. Today we’re talking about how to get comfortable with being on camera.

Show Notes
Episode Transcript

Note: This transcript of the episode was machine-generated and has not been edited for correctness. It’s provided for your convenience when searching. Please excuse any errors.

Dan: [00:00:00] If you want your audience to connect with you as a creator, videos more effective potentially than text. Well, live video is even more effective than recorded video because now you really are, you’re having like a real time conversation with them. I mean, that’s such a cool idea.

Ben: [00:00:33] Good morning, Dan,

Dan: [00:00:34] Good morning, Ben.

Ben: [00:00:37] how are you? This fine day.

Dan: [00:00:39] I’m doing exceptionally well. How about you?

Ben: [00:00:42] I’m doing great. I’m doing really well. I, I have to, I have to apologize for making you get up extra early. Today we, we had a little bit of a schedule thing. I had to shift some things around. And so Dan. Is recording with me. what is it like, an hour and a half earlier than we normally would begin?

Dan: [00:01:05] Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. So it’s 7:00 AM my time, but but I’m here.

Ben: [00:01:10] Yeah, that’s an NC. It’s been a long time since 7:00 AM was early for me. That’s like sleeping in now if I sleep, if I sleep past six, it’s like, Oh, wow, I’ve missed the whole day.

Dan: [00:01:23] Right? Your your kids, your kids are throwing Legos at you at five o’clock sharp getting you out of bed.

Ben: [00:01:28] They’re throwing sharp Legos at me at five o’clock you are correct.

Dan: [00:01:31] Yes, exactly.

Ben: [00:01:33] That’s what you said, right?

Dan: [00:01:34] That’s something like what I said, yes. You don’t want to get those things in your eye.

Ben: [00:01:38] No, no, you do not.

So today’s topic is, it’s one that I brought up. And speaking of the schedule stuff, you were. I think I got a text from me last night and he said, I’ve got to, I’ve got to make the show summary in seven hours. And I hadn’t sent you an outline yet, so thank, thank you for,

Dan: [00:02:01] Yes. I may have come off snarkier than I intended mostly. Mostly. All I was trying to say was just make sure you send it to me before, I think it was like 8:00 AM your time, because I’d have to, I’d have to post it, but we’re, we’re going way too into the weeds of how we get this podcast podcast made.

Ben: [00:02:18] I think it’s okay to do that every once in awhile. 

Dan: [00:02:20] I can always edit it out too.

Ben: [00:02:23] yeah, you can always edit it out if you want to, but this, this topic is one that, that I introduced because. You know, videos for a long time. It’s been such an important topic for me in terms of a powerful tool that creators can use to grow their audience.

Mmm. And, and it has benefits outside of just that, which we’ll get into in this show as well. And, and so, you know, this morning at whatever time I woke up, I was like, Oh yeah, I need to send that. And it literally took me five minutes to write. I dunno, it was like maybe a three or 400 word outline that I, that I sent over to you.

Cause you know, it’s, it’s all right there. Mmm. But we’ve, you know, we’ve talked about on this show, why it’s so important to be getting into video for many industries. I mean, even if even if you think that you, you know, like as an author. Well, everything you do is about writing. So like why is video important?

But I feel like we’ve established that video. Even even for a writer or somebody who doesn’t do something they would think is related to video . It just, it becomes this really powerful tool that can set you apart from everybody else in your field, especially if you’re doing it consistently and frequently.

across multiple platforms. So, but I, I do want to, I do want to touch on that again a little bit. Just, you know, magic of seven, this idea of video. And, and I want to ask you, because we were talking a little bit in the pre show and, and I was asking you like, why do you think it’s important for you to get into video as someone who is.

Primarily doing, doing written stuff.

Dan: [00:04:28] It just seems to me that. Video is becoming the new medium in a lot of ways. And I say that as someone who wants to write books, obviously people still read lots of books, but the game today we talk about is all about gathering attention and that has its its ups and downs, but it does seem like if you want to do a creative thing.

You need to build an audience. If you need to build an audience, you need to find people where they are. You need to gain access to their attention. And there are a few ways of doing that though we’ve talked about in the past. You can buy attention by advertising. You can gather attention through creating content.

Right. And it seems like increasingly the kind of content that gets attention is videos, right? Like as, as much as I still, I reminisce about the golden days when it was all about blogs, where, you know, people were posting all of this writing online and sharing it with each other. The fact of the matter is, today, it’s certainly, you know, I, I’ve heard people, we probably have more empirical.

Evidence of this, but even if I think about what I see and hear about in the world,

people consume stuff in video. They just do. I always hear about kids, Ben, you, you have kids.

The thing I always hear people talking about about their kids is that if they have, say an iPhone or an iPad that they have access to, they will just watch YouTube videos.

All day one after another autoplay is turned on and when one video stops, the next one starts. And even when they’re doing other stuff, like eating meals, watching television, playing in the front yard, riding a bicycle, they’re still watching YouTube videos. I’m not 100% sure it’s safe to do in all of those circumstances, but they just never stop.

Ben: [00:06:30] Yeah. So when, when my kids put their roller blades on, that’s usually about the time I tell them to, you know, we, I, so ironically in our home, we’ve got some pretty strict boundaries around the amount of time they spend watching videos and that kind of thing. Mmm. And you know, that’s, that’s still something that we’re from.

Dan: [00:06:50] Absolutely. But the, the point is just to say that like the amount of information that’s being consumed via video seems to be increasing. Because yes. I mean, while kids are kids, there’s a whole topic of like, you know, one of those of us who were born when there still wasn’t an internet. How do we handle the development of people who are growing up in a world where they have continuous access to all the information in the world from the time that they’re.

You know, children and they, how are they going to learn boundaries and what are the right boundaries? That’s a whole conversation. The point is, Ben, that your, your kids will someday be adults and those adults will have grown up in a world where their primary medium for consuming the vast amount of information in the world was video.

Ben: [00:07:37] Yeah. So  and it’s true, I think, not just from, there’s, there’s the standpoint of the technology has become more accessible. It’s. Easier. Every single year it becomes easier and easier to record, edit, share videos, and, the technology for the, the streaming of videos has gotten better. And so it’s, it’s easier to, it’s easier to consume video.

And I think what’s also at play is, you know, it’s, it rewards social media platforms when. People when people spend their time and attention on something and nothing really does that as powerfully as video does. So videos become a huge driver of ad revenue, or almost every platform, which is why you see almost every platform making some major investment, you know, within the past 15 years, making some major investment.

Into video and building a UI specifically around video. And, and so that’s, and, and what, what makes them money they will promote. So there’s, in many cases, there’s just more visibility when you’re doing video. and, and so I think it’s, I think it’s definitely true that there are benefits in terms of.

The kind of access that you have to people’s attention. and then of course, you know, like especially people who don’t know you already and who are not already invested in you. it’s, it’s really hard to get people’s attention in the first place. Video is the easiest way, I would say. I would say maybe it’s a close tie between video and images, but video is the best, the best way to get someone’s attention and actually give them more comprehensive information about who you are and what you do.

And it also is a much more powerful tool in terms of. Being able to show people who you are. It’s just so much more engaging. People get to hear the tone of your voice, see your body language, your facial expressions, all of those things that you just, you can’t translate as well through written word. And, and so it is, it is a huge opportunity to connect with people and to get attention in ways that.

I think for other mediums just takes much longer.  do you feel like that’s an accurate assessment.

Dan: [00:10:32] Absolutely. Because I’m going back to the author thing, and you know, authors in particular tend to be, you know, traditionally they’ve been these mysterious things. I mean, when you used to buy, when books used to be printed on dead trees, you’d buy one, and when you opened the back cover, there would usually be a photograph, like one photograph of the author and a little blurb that says, Stephen King is a writer who lives in Maine with his wife, Tabitha on his cats, or whatever.


Ben: [00:11:05] Is his wife’s named Tabitha.

Dan: [00:11:06] his wife’s name is Tabitha. Yes. And she, she is, she’s also a writer. And I mean, at this point, a couple of his kids are writers too. It’s a whole whole dynasty of writers. But Mmm. The fact is people we want to connect with each other. Right. And video does. Video is a, is a more powerful way of forging that connection.

There are, there are authors whose YouTube videos I watch because they talk about. topics that are relevant to writers. And it, it, like, on the one hand, it probably makes me more likely to buy their books. But the point being that after watching their YouTube videos, I feel like, you know, it’s like, Oh, this is like my internet buddy.

I, I, it’s the same thing I get when listening to podcasts where it feels like I’m hanging out with these people even though they don’t know I exist.  in a way that is, is much more powerful than when someone writes something, publishes it in the written word, and you read it. That is a form of connection as well, but it’s not quite as visceral a form of connection as when you can see the person’s face and hear their voice, because that’s the closest we can get short of being in the same room with it with one another.

Ben: [00:12:20] I just thought of a fun after, maybe after, after show, but possibly after show. I’m trying to think ahead about where technology is going and you just, you just said short of being in the room with someone, but that’s a similar experience to that is definitely on the horizon.

Dan: [00:12:44] Agreed. Well, and you know what? I’d thought of that point before when I was talking about how over time video has been taking over as the main medium. And you know, a lot of these arguments we make when we talk about. Yeah. Cause we talk about this stuff a lot. We talk about how you should create content and then lots of people that want to help you build your business on the internet.

Talk about stuff like this. And sometimes one can sort of have a mental backlash against it and be like, why do we all think it’s so important to be on Instagram? You know? And stuff like that. And. I’m going to keep this short because we’re wandering away from the topic of the show a little bit, but just to say that, you know, it just, it, it appears to me that I don’t see the pendulum swinging back in the other direction like it might, but if we consider that people are consuming more information in video then that they used to consume via text, I just, I don’t see how over at least let’s say the next decade, like I, I would be very surprised.

The, if we woke up in 2030 and found out the end and like, realize that we just read text now and like video was gone. I mean, anything could happen, but that does not seem like the more likely outcome seems more likely to me. That video will just get more and more ubiquitous and yeah, in the after show, if you want to start talking about holograms and you know, VR and stuff like that

It’s only going to get more about the visual. So, so all of this brings us to this idea that if you accept the fact that there might be some benefit to you to appearing on videos, well, step one, because you already have a camera on your smartphone, is getting comfortable on that camera. And that’s what we’re really going to dig into.

Ben: [00:14:31] Yeah. So the, and this, this is really the focus of the show is you, you already, you know, like you said, you’ve already got a camera

Dan: [00:14:41] That’s, that’s connected to the internet. Like you could be posting a video by the time Ben and I are done this sentence basically.

Ben: [00:14:49] You understand the importance of it. You see the power of it. You get it, it’s, and you’re, and you’re on board. You’re like, yeah, I sh I should be doing that.

Dan: [00:14:58] Hmm.

Ben: [00:14:59] But when you look at that camera lens, you just, you, you freeze it, it, you feel. The anxiety in your body, you’re not sure what to say. You’re thinking of like, Oh, there’s this ambiguous group of people who are now going to watch this.

What are they going to think is, is what I have to save? And really, you know, and like, you start doing this thing to yourself. Mmm. And there, and there are so many reasons. There’s so many reasons. One can be uncomfortable being on camera. but I want to, I want to address some of those things. And, and really the punchline of this whole episode is there are, there are mental tricks you can do.

There are things that, there are ways that you can adjust your mindset, and there are things that you can do even to relieve some of the anxiety that you feel in your body. But ultimately it comes down to repetition over time. but I don’t, I don’t want to leave this episode without giving you some things that you can try out to help you just get over the hurdle of even turning the camera on in the first place.

So, I want to, I want to talk about back when I was doing a lot more, a lot more commercial video work, one of the things that I would do. Is, I would set up these interview shots with business owners and sometimes with their customers if they’re doing testimonials, that kind of thing. And I didn’t have like, you know, a big production set up, but I did have a nice camera on a stand.

I had the lights, I had a microphone set up. And so it was, it was kind of intimidating, you know, for someone who’s never been on camera to sit down in the chair. And I’m not. In, in most cases, I’m not telling them to look into the lens and talk to the camera. I’m trying to direct their attention to me and just have a conversation with me and I, and I tell them, I would tell them, pretend there are no cameras in the room.

It’s just you and me having a conversation, because I could see it as soon as they sat down in the chair and they looked around and they could. See the lights and the cameras there and stuff like that. You could just see it in their bodies. They would tense up and like their breathing would get short and, and so I would stop them.

I would say, okay, just let’s take a couple of deep breaths and, and so like even even that right there, just taking a couple of deep breaths is a great way to. It kind of makes your body signal to your brain that you’re okay. Nothing bad is going to happen to you and you can, you can relax. And so we would, we would conduct the interview and if, if I would see them start to kind of stumble over their words or lose their train of thought, I would have them pause again.

Pick another couple of deep breaths. And then keep going. And so that was, that was really, outside of my own personal experiences. That was one of my first exposures to the physiology of the discomfort in front of the camera. So I did a couple of things and I mentioned them as I was, as I was, I’m talking about it, but I would focus their attention to me.

And so instead of, instead of them thinking about, Oh, this is a commercial that like potential customers are going to see, and like all of all of the things that they would think about that, you know, and we do that when we think about where this is going to be out on the internet or out in the world, we start to imagine the people who are going to be watching it.

And. It’s really difficult for us not to think of like this ambiguous, you know, like not very well defined, but just like this group of strangers and, and that’s intimidating, you know, like I think, I think what that does is it taps into our fear of public speaking, our fear of being in front of a crowd of strangers.

And. And how, like if we say the wrong thing or if we make a fool of ourselves, there’s, there’s shame and ridicule connected to that because now like we’re not seen as, as valuable or important or knowledgeable or useful, you know? So like there are all of these things at play when you’re thinking about that group, when you’re thinking about that, that big group of strangers.

And so, so I always, I always tried really hard. To make sure they knew. You’re just sitting in a room with me and there happens to be a camera here, but talk to me, you know, like I’m going to ask you questions and you, you direct those questions to me. I’m, I’m a real person sitting here in front of you.

And, and so I, they, you know, I was a physical version of what. I think we can do as creators is kind of create this imaginary avatar of a single person. But I’d sit across from them and I would, you know, I would be engaged and like visibly interested, leaning in, showing, showing affirmation for what they’re telling me.

And, and not, not like, you know, I didn’t have a confused or. Uncomfortable look on my face like I was, I was always trying to be as supportive and encouraging as possible. And then, you know, like direct what they were saying with my questions.

Dan: [00:21:09] Right, right. Which is, sorry to flip that around. The people that we’re talking to though, of course, they’re not going to have the extremely soothing countenance of Ben Tulson to comfort them while they record videos. Right. But I think you got. The, the thing you really struck on there was that idea of instead of thinking about the vast and undifferentiated audience of potential YouTube commenters to instead address your videos to one person, and this is actually the same advice we give when writing an email to an email list.

Don’t write, don’t write to a list. Don’t say, Hey, everyone, don’t record a video. I mean, plenty of YouTubers go, Hey guys, when they start every video, but we all make fun of them the way I just did. Instead. I love the idea of just addressing the thing to one person. I’ve just looking into the camera and imagining that your best friend is sitting across the table from you and saying, Hey, here’s what I’m talking about.

I’ve got a little a recommendation. Jordan in the chat just mentioned an app I hadn’t heard of before called Marco polo, which she described as a video walkie talkie. She was saying one thing that has helped me make the repetition over time go faster. You know, getting more experience being on camera is to get on Marco polo and make little videos for family and friends.

Now it’s a lot more natural to look at my phone and talk. That’s a perfect example where she is literally recording videos for one person that she feels comfortable with. That’s a great way to practice, and I think that’s a great mindset to carry into even when you start creating videos for an audience.

Ben: [00:22:50] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’s, it takes a little bit of work. Mmm. Because your brain wants to look at the danger and so you have to. You have to steer it toward something that is going to work for you. And so like, imagine the most encouraging, affirming person you can think of who, if you were to have a conversation with them, they’re not gonna, they’re not like, they’re not going to be distracted or say something about your hair or like make fun of you, force tripping over your words or saying something just not exactly the way you meant to say it.

They’re going to listen and they get you. They get you. You don’t have to. So, so I feel like, I feel like that can be a really powerful exercise. Mmm. And another thing that I did was I did make them take those deep breaths, just, just two or three. Anytime. Anytime I, I could SI just in their posture and the way they were holding themselves that.

They were feeling stressed or uncomfortable or anxious. it, it really is amazing how just taking a few deep breaths really does signal. It’s, it’s like your way of making your body signal to your brain that you’re safe and you’re okay because you only, you only breathe deeply when like not on purpose.

You. You only breathe deeply kind of by default when you’re in a situation where everything is calm and peaceful and there is in danger.

Dan: [00:24:38] Yeah. You’re, you’re taking advantage of that effect. Whose name escapes me? Where. When you are stressed out, your body responds to stress by, among other things, breathing very quickly to try to, I guess, increase oxygen saturation in your blood probably so you can run fast, but you can take advantage of it the other way around where when you’re stressed, your brain signals your breathing to change, but if you deliberately change your breathing.

It signals your brain. So if you sit there and start hyperventilating on purpose, I don’t know why you’d do it, but you will start to feel anxious. On the other hand, if you sit there and deliberately take slow, deep breaths, you will automatically tend to relax.

Ben: [00:25:21] Right, and repeat that as often as you need to. Even in one session like the I had, I had, I remember a client who. Sat down and like looked around and just like big wide eyes. And I don’t know if I can do this. And so I, I think it was maybe like four or five times throughout the course of a 10 minute interview, just we, we just stopped, took a few deep breaths and then kept going.

And, and so that can be a really powerful way. And then another thing I did with these clients is I would tell them, I would remind them of. What we were trying to do, their goal for making the video. And a lot of times what that does is your, you’re doing a thing, like you’re, you’re recording a video and  but your ultimate goal in recording a video is to, you know, grow your subscriber base, or, Mmm.

Let people know about this awesome thing that you made so that, so that they will be aware of it and maybe buy it from you. Or you know, like you’ve got this, you’ve got this goal that’s outside of the act of making a video. And, and some people have a really hard time. They go into it and they think, Oh, my goal is to make a video.

And they get really stuck on that. And so I find that shifting the focus outside of that to the ultimate goal. Like why, why are you doing this? and, and focusing there helps take the focus off of what you’re doing, which helps you relax a little bit.

Dan: [00:27:12] Something that occurred to me when you were talking about this I this concept of pausing for breath is the fact that. Well, we can talk about two different things. We talk about recording a video to publish later, and we can talk about the probably less common situation for most of our listeners, which would be streaming live video.

If you’re streaming live video and you pause to take a few breaths, obviously everyone watching the video can see you do it. That being said. It’s probably still better for you and less disruptive for you to do that than for you to anxiously be stuttering over your words like this. But on the other hand, if you’re recording something to publish later, and this might touch on another thing in your outline ban about thinking in takes.

You can edit video before you put it out. Now, I want to be careful when I say that because most of my editing experience is in audio. It comes from editing. Shows like this one, and when you’re editing audio, I find it’s relatively easy to cut things out without creating a noticeable cut. You know what I mean?

Whereas in video, I realized that if you, you have to be careful how you edit because you can create very strange looking jumps in the image. But am I on the right track? Ben, do you think this is a useful piece.

Ben: [00:28:37] So while. Mmm, well, well that that does happen. Like visually, if you’re cutting out a section of silence or like I paused to take a breath or to cough or something like that. I do this all the time with the videos that I edit for podia. it is full of jump cuts because I re I record intakes knowing that I’m going to be just jumping from one thing to the next.

And I do this little, I do this little pop in thing. So like visually it comes across a little bit more professional, but, people don’t really notice or care about jump cuts all that much, unless it’s like every single word that would be. But if you, if you get a phrase out and then you go to the next phrase and you didn’t say that second phrase the way that you wanted to, and so you, you give it another shot.

You’re going to end up wanting to cut that one phrase out, right? So that jump cut from one to the next. Visually they’re going to look different, but people, people are really listening for the content and they don’t really notice or care about the jump cuts.

Dan: [00:29:50] Gotcha. They, they only, they only notice if it’s really sort of abrupt or like right in the middle of a sentence or something like that.

Ben: [00:29:58] Yeah, and as a matter of fact, with with edited video, you’re better off doing many jump cuts than just letting there be a lot of dead air between phrases or sentences while you’re trying to gather your thoughts. The, the emphasis is not on a perfect performance as much as it is on. Being really quick and concise, honoring people’s time and, and the attention they chose to give you at that time.

So, so I would say that’s not really as much of a concern when it, when it comes to, to editing and doing things and

Dan: [00:30:35] want to, I want to underline that. Mmm. That to not worry so much about giving a perfect performance, because I suspect for a lot of people just getting started with video, that’s a big part of what holds them back. It’s a very analogous to the problem with writing where. If you try to sit down and you write a sentence and then you go, well, that isn’t quite what I wanted to say.

I want to go back and edit it. You will quickly find that you can’t finish the thing you’re writing. If you want to write something of any sort of link for substance, you have to just write a terribly messy draft and then go back and edit it. And the point is you can do exactly the same thing for other media like audio and video.

Ben: [00:31:20] Yeah. So writing and writing and audio offer the benefit of Anne and I, I do this trick a lot with more professional stuff. I will put B roll over sections of interview. Where I had to like literally take what this person said over here and move it in front of this section. And almost, almost like I’m making them say something.

They didn’t say, I never, but I never do it in, in a way that like undermines the original intent of what they were trying to say. And I always, you know, run it by them, but I’ll, but I’ll hide those cuts. Under B roll. So that you, so that, it sounds like, because you’re only hearing the audio, it sounds like a clean take, right?

But with the type of video we’re talking about, we’re not, we’re not talking about, well produced commercial where you’re, you know, like we’re talking about you being authentic. If you do stuff and, and make those cuts and, you know, like  it’s not a big deal. you get to hide those in writing and on audio, but people understand and they don’t care when it’s on video.

Dan: [00:32:41] Gotcha. Okay. I think it’s a good point because I, you know, what we want today is to get people comfortable on camera. What we don’t want is to give them another big sticking point because you know, they were halfway to posting to their instant a video of themselves to their Instagram story when they stopped and went, Oh crap, I need to become a professional video editor first.

Right? We want to avoid that. So what do you, I want to know more about this idea of thinking in takes, because a take in video that’s, that’s not just where you edit, right? That’s where you do a section of your video, and then if you don’t like that section, you do it over again.  is that correct?

Ben: [00:33:18] Yeah. So, and you can, you can approach this in a couple of different ways for the amount and, or like for the length and the amount of videos I produce for podia, I have to script stuff out ahead of time. Otherwise, the editing process would just take me way too long. but even still reading from a script.

I will, I will read through a sentence. and I might not like the way I said something or I’m, I might’ve done the whole thing, but I mess up on the last word. And so I’ll just, I’ll just give it another go. But even, even when I’m recording a vlog and I’m not scripted, I’ll, I’ll have something that I know I want to say, like, just kind of the idea of something in my head and.

I’ll go ahead and say it and I’ll be like, ah, I didn’t really like the way I said that. Let me, let me give it another shot. And so like, I’ll, I’ll try to say it again. And, and sometimes I’ll even, you know, like between the two takes, I might like the second half of the first take, but I like the first half of the second take better and I can just cut and put those together.

And, and doing that really frees me up mentally. When it comes to trying to deliver my ideas, because I’m not like, if I don’t say this perfectly, I, I know that I can fix it in the edit now eventually, and I’m not there yet, but eventually you want to get to a place where you are either okay with having a bad take in just sharing that with people and letting that be your first take and just like, eh, whatever.

It’s fine. And what I think is making that more, acceptable and easy to do is, Mmm.  is like Instagram video things like tick tock where it’s, it’s really more of this just quick, say it and post it kind of medium and you’re not doing much editing before it goes out to everyone.

Dan: [00:35:29] It’s less less produced.

Ben: [00:35:31] Right. Or, or you get to where you’re just so polished.

you’ve practiced enough that you’re really good at saying what you mean to say in the first take. And then, you know, like some, some in between those two, like where you’re comfortable enough that you don’t care, but you’re good enough that it’s still pretty good anyway, and you can just ship it first, take every time.

Regardless of what kind of video you’re doing, whether it’s social or blog or talking head or whatever.

Dan: [00:36:04] Sure. Well, I think while you’re waiting to get there, you made the point about scripting a longer video. Most of what I’ve published, I haven’t published a lot in video so far. I’ve just thrown up a couple of Instagram stories here and there. The thing I’ve found is even when you’re recording a video that’s maybe a minute long, it is useful to outline it and practice it because.

If I’m recording, if I’m just holding up my phone in front of my face and holding the button down for a minute and then sending it to my Instagram story, I’m not going to edit that. I’m not going to. You know, I could, I could record the video on my phone imported into premier pro or something, edit it, and then upload it to Instagram.

But I’m not going to do that for a 62nd video. So what I have found useful is very briefly outline what I’m going to say. And that could be four or five bullet points on a piece of paper because it’s just to keep my brain on track. And then maybe practice it like without recording. Just hold up my phone and go, Hey guys.

Oh gee, I can’t stop doing that now. And just go.

Just go, you know what, today, today we’re talking about how I’m editing this draft and I did this and I did that, and the et cetera, this and the other thing. All right, cool. Boom, and then done. It helps keep you on track because what I’ve found is if I, if I literally, because I’m not very practiced at this, hold up my phone and just hit the record button, there just tends to be an awful lot of, guests.

and. I just really benefit from having like said the whole thing once or twice. And the fact is if you’re recording a video that’s only a minute or two long, you can get all your practice and then your final take done in under 10 minutes. Like you can script, script your video on an index card, practice it twice and record it and have the whole thing done in like eight minutes.

Ben: [00:37:55] Well, and what I tend to do is  to make it even faster is. I will get the, I’ll, I’ll go ahead and turn the camera on and I’ll just record the first take with all the ums and AHS and stuff, knowing that like, it’s okay for me to scrap that and to start over because it took, it was 60 seconds of practice basically, and, and I can analyze like right after I’m done.

I’m like, okay. I like what I said here. I’m going to say that again. But I think I might say this a little bit differently. This was an important, I’m just going to leave that out. You know? So like you kind of, if you practice it that way, I think that ends up becoming much more efficient and also like it just the permission to the permission to say, I don’t have to, I don’t have to publish the first take.

It really takes the pressure off. And then what you might find happens is the first take ends up being really great, and it’s like, actually, I think that’s okay. I’ll just send that, you know? sometimes that happens.

Dan: [00:39:13] that I think you actually, it’s a good, I like that advice better than mine to record all your takes because. A, you might get it right the first time, right, and then you might as well not have to do it again, but you’re right. On the other hand, if you record it, you can watch it back and go, Oh, I see what I did there at 16 seconds in, I’m going to do that differently.

Ben: [00:39:34] and the constraints with that type of social video, I think really they’re really great for you. Just you just scale that up, right? If you’re, if you’re recording a vlog. And your goal is to make like, you know, a 10 minute blog or something. You basically scale up that experience of recording something for 60 seconds, up to eight earn, you know, nine times, depending on how much you intend to the talk to the camera.

That’s really all it is. It’s not, it’s not eight to nine minutes of you talking. It’s 62nd chunks of you talking to the camera. And then doing and then just repeating that. Mmm. I, I’ve, I feel like it’s a helpful way to think about it, to scale it up like that. And then that type of, that, that type of video becomes a really good kind of practice.

training ground for longer form video. I love the Marco polo idea, by the way.

Dan: [00:40:42] Or you wait, and just to be clear, you’re talking about the app that Jordan mentioned earlier and not that game that you play in the swimming pool

Ben: [00:40:49] You know, either one, I think. No. so the Marco polo app,

Dan: [00:40:54] now, if you played Marco polo using the app. Sorry, I, you got to stop me.

Ben: [00:40:58] you can’t  that doesn’t work.

Dan: [00:41:00] Sure it does. Phones are waterproof now. I’m pretty sure.

Ben: [00:41:05] Only if you have an iPhone. No, I don’t know, actually. I think, I think it’s the other way around. I think I phones or not.

Dan: [00:41:11] Thanks to our sponsor, Apple and corporated. We’ll see you next week. Yeah, go on.

Ben: [00:41:15] So, so you have, you have, you know, friends and family, they’re the O and you’re sending it directly to a person, or I think you might be able to do like a group of people,

Dan: [00:41:28] Mm.

Ben: [00:41:29] but these are, these are people who.

Aren’t going to give you a hard time. Don’t care what you look like. You probably already do video calls with them from time to time. Maybe at any rate, you see them in person and you have conversations and so it feels natural, but you’re exercising this experience of talking to the camera on your phone and with with the pressure off.

you get to see yourself deliver into a camera for, you know, whatever length of time, 30 or 60 seconds. You get to see yourself deliver with ease, feeling comfortable and unconcerned with how the other person is going to receive it

and that

Dan: [00:42:21] great practice.

Ben: [00:42:22] Yeah. That practice. Is going to translate into you feeling more comfortable and more confident when it’s not somebody you know, but that ambiguous group of strangers. Mmm. Your, your body is going to remember the feeling of holding the camera and looking into the, looking into the camera and feeling and not feeling afraid.

And so I, I think that’s great practice. And if you’re, if you’re trying to think of like a progression, I feel like that’s the way to go. Like using these shorter form quick, these videos are going away after 24 hours because of the way the app works. Mmm. Unless you, unless you save them and repurpose them for something else.

But, But I feel like that’s a good progression. Like you, you start there and then you kind of work your way up to more longer form, video and, and where, where I think the end point and kind of the ultimate goal is to get to a place where you feel comfortable doing live stream on camera, knowing that people are watching.

And. You feel comfortable, like you can be yourself and  and it’s, you know, it’s okay. That’s, but I feel like the range between, you know, that really just quick, short form video content and doing a live video stream. That’s the distance you want to travel. Like the, the ultimate goal is to get comfortable over there.

Dan: [00:44:11] That’s a great progression. I especially like the move from ephemeral. To more permanent, where you start off with just these video messages to people that you know love, that you, you care about and you know that you know you’re not a self conscious in front of them. And then going to something like Instagram stories or if people still use Snapchat, I think, you know, it’s also good for this.

Is that knowledge that like no matter how badly I screw this up, people only have 24 hours to see it and then it’s gone. You know? It takes off a lot of the pressure as opposed to thinking about, after I post this, it’s going to be on YouTube for the rest of, well, you know, and for who knows how long for years.

Ben: [00:44:52] I want to say something here too, because I wanna make sure for the person who’s thinking, well, I would never, I would never do, live video. But for a lot of, I mean, Dan, there are ways that you could use webinars as an author that would be beneficial to your ability to sell books and to gain followers.

And, and so, like there, there are like video, video chat and video conferencing video podcasts. All of these things are just exploding right now. This long form live video is huge, and if you’re not working your way toward that, you’re, you’re missing out on something that’s, I think is, is becoming even more powerful than, than just like short form, quick video content.

Dan: [00:45:50] Well, it goes back to the connection thing that we were talking about before, where if video is a more effective way to connect with a person, like say.  you want your audience to connect with you as a creator. Videos more effective potentially than text. Well, live video is even more effective than recorded video because now you really are, you’re having like a real time conversation with them.

You know, think about how well, think about how powerful that is, but on the less utilitarian perspective, think about how fun that could be. Having members of your audience come in and say, Oh, I loved it when you posted this, whatever it is that you made, let me ask you about X. And right then and there you can go, Oh yeah, that was great when I did X.

It was like this. I mean, that’s such a cool idea.

Ben: [00:46:34] Yeah. With, with, any, any live video that you can do where there’s a live chat component and people can, I mean, this, this podcast, when we were streaming video regularly, that was. I think one of the, the most powerful ways we built a connection with people was that they could actually see us on camera.

You know, I would get up and dance for the room camera, and, you know, like all of that silly stuff we did. And I’ve got, you know, I’ve got years of experience being in front of a camera and so I feel very comfortable. but it took, it took a lot of time. And I also had a background doing performing in front of people and stuff like that.

So like, I already already had some built in comfort,

but, but that’s why like, I’ve been so eager to get back to doing this as a live streamed video podcast, because I know. How powerful it can be for people to be able to see you and, and really to see all of your mistakes and to see that when you make a mistake, you’re not freaking out about it. people love that.

If you can, if you can, not just, not just be okay with your mistakes, but even draw attention to your mistakes, that’s really attractive and it deepens the connection. because people feel less alone in the mistakes that they make. They feel like they have permission to go and make mistakes and make a fool of themselves, and that they’re going to be okay.

They see that you’re human, you know, like there, there are so many positive things that come from that. and so, I mean, that’s, that’s another mental trick that you can do is as you can, instead of thinking of like, Oh, if I, if I mess up on this take, I have to do it again. I have to put something out.

Perfect. Otherwise, people are gonna think I’m a fraud. Mmm.  I think the worst thing that people can think about you is that you never make mistakes. If you. If you’re real with people and you show them who you are, that that you make mistakes and that it’s okay. I think they’re just  you’re, you’re creating a deeper connection that way.

Dan: [00:49:10] 100% weird. We’re drawn to each other’s vulnerabilities and flaws, and it can be really hard to accept that I have. That’s always been a thing for me, has been this deeply embedded fear that if anyone ever notices that I’m imperfect. Then I, you know, I shall be shunned, which is transparently ridiculous because I got to tell you, Ben, if you, if you hang out with me for more than 30 consecutive seconds, you will rapidly learn that, that I am imperfect.

And you know, but I think the  advice about,

you know, how people really connect with you, they, they, the point is they want to know that you’re not some kind of a robot. Sean. Oh, sorry, Sean isn’t here right now, but I just feel like sometimes, you know, some of us need to hear that message, that that to show people that we’re not robots.


Ben: [00:50:01] It’s true and I, I think Sean is done a really good job of. Talking about some of the mistakes or talking about the mistakes he’s made publicly. I mean, it really, in a lot of ways, it becomes the centerpiece of much of what he talks about.

Dan: [00:50:22] That’s true. I think it’s one of the, I find it’s one of those things. And I, you know, I think we’re only TA, you know, throwing Sean under the bus cause it’s his show. It’s a, and we’re not really throwing him under the bus, but just using him as an example. I think I’ve found it easy when you pay attention to Shawn’s material, to think, here’s one of these internet gurus that gets everything right.

Until, yeah, if you look a little deeper, everything he’s talking about comes from a place of, boy, I sure screwed this up. Here’s what I’ve learned since.

Ben: [00:50:50] Right? Yeah. So it’s, so that’s definitely, again, these are, these are things that you can purposefully try to focus on and shift your way of thinking about so that you become a little bit more comfortable. but all of the tricks in the world are not going to replace actually getting in front of a camera consistently and just doing it.

Dan: [00:51:19] Right. So, so Ben, a, B, C, R.

Ben: [00:51:24] Yeah. this is,

Dan: [00:51:26] tell me, tell me about this. ABC R.

Ben: [00:51:29] this, this kinda came to me one day. It’s, I don’t, somebody else probably thought of it too, but ABC are, is always be camera ready. And it’s a thing, I told Sean one day because I went over. I w I was blogging. I went over to his house and I knocked on the door and I had the camera, which is, it’s really, really rude.

Probably because he opens the door and like I’ve got the camera right there in his face and it’s like eight o’clock in the morning.

Dan: [00:52:01] Did you have an assistant? Did you have an assistant there with a gigantic novelty check as well?

Ben: [00:52:07] No, no, I did not.

Dan: [00:52:08] what you were missing. That’s what you’re missing.

Ben: [00:52:10] that’s, that probably would’ve made it. Okay. so he was, he was like, Oh, I didn’t know you were going to have a camera. I’m, and he, like, he had glasses on and, you know, he, he looked fine.

Dan: [00:52:25] Well, yeah, but. What do you your advice? Your advice to him was a BCR.

Ben: [00:52:29] It’s like always be ready. You gotta you know, you always gotta be ready for that camera. 

Dan: [00:52:34] So how did the rest of us normal people do that though?

Ben: [00:52:37] Well, so, so the thing, the thing I like about this idea of always being camera ready is it’s not, it’s not necessarily you always,

and  this is where I want to kind of be delicate, right? Because, Mmm.

In many cultures. There are unrealistic and unfair standards for what is considered an acceptable public appearance for women.

And so

Dan: [00:53:13] I, I was, I was going to say there’s a D we want to avoid a degree of easy for us guys to say, always be camera ready.

Ben: [00:53:20] right. So, so for me to be according to cultural standards, camera ready? Mmm. Is not a difficult thing, but for S for Rachel to feel like she’s camera ready, it’s, you know, 30 to 45 minutes of preparing herself and, and so, so I don’t, I don’t want to put this out there as like you, you always need to be like, you always need to have your best face on or anything like that.

It’s nothing. It’s not about that. As much as it is about, Mmm. Think, think it. Think of it like office hours. So if you’re, if you’re going into work, there are things that you do to prepare to go into work. So, or, or whatever. So while you’re in that space, Mmm. Where you, where you already feel like you could turn a camera on and, and.

Not feel bad about your appearance or whatever. which is, I mean, that’s a whole other, that’s a whole other topic. But just assuming, assuming that you, you feel comfortable putting the camera on yourself, always being camera ready is really more about understanding that there are, there are moments, there’s.

there’s, there’s this kind of spontaneity that being ready to turn the camera on at any moment is really helpful for us. So like, you might, you might have something, remarkable happen and you, you just, you want to be ready to turn the camera on and talk about it and share about it in the moment when you’re experiencing that so that you can share it with other people.

that’s, that’s what always being camera ready is about. Mmm. . And the other thing, gosh, I, I gotta I have to be honest, man, it’s, it’s really hard for me to talk about this because I know it’s, I know it’s so different for me than it is for.

I know it’s so different for men than it is for women and a lot of cultures.

Dan: [00:55:50] You know what I, I was, I was just giving this some more thought cause later on I had a point I wanted to make about processes. And it occurred to me that, that this could become part of it. But, you know, even as I was kind of making this note to myself, I was realizing that, you know, I literally, any female video content producer in the world is more qualified than either Ben or myself.

To advise women how they can feel that they are. Camera ready. So Frank, I think you know, you and I can can, let’s put up a big disclaimer and, and keep the focus on, you know, the, the, at least the mindset of being camera ready, looking for opportunities to capture video that might not be a perfectly pre scripted.

I’m going to go into my studio now and turn on the lights. You know, let’s, let’s look for opportunities to capture more stuff. You know, that that’s, that’s what, that’s also what always being camera ready means it, doesn’t, it. It is not a requirement to try to look a certain way.

Ben: [00:56:56] Exactly. Mmm. But I also, I also understand, and I’m, Mmm, sympathetic two, that experience of, well, camera ready for me means, you know, X, Y, and Z. So, Mmm. So, yeah, it’s, but, but on the, on the side of always being ready to capture something, looking for opportunities, looking for things to share. part of that, part of that is also like kind of planning ahead and looking at your day and thinking, okay, what’s happening today?

if you’re, if you’re blogging or just capturing stuff for her social media or whatever it is. I’m thinking ahead too, to what might be something to focus on in your day can be a great way to prepare yourself mentally to be looking for those opportunities. And so those are, those are kind of, those are the things that I want to take away from, from this idea of always being camera ready.

Dan: [00:58:14] Yeah, Sean, what Sean and I have started doing, especially now that he’s on sabbatical, we don’t have scheduled calls anymore, but we’ve sort of come up with a system where when we do have a call about something, we can decide that we should record it and easily we’ve come up with a way to easily do that because a lot of the time when we have a conversation, something will come out of it and we’ll go, ah, you know what?

That would have made a good like small podcast episode or that would’ve made a good community value. A show for the community. This is something not a lot of people know that we do, but we sometimes will take a sort of less, less filtered, less produced recordings, and just post them inside the community because we think they’d be valuable to people.

Now, that’s all audio thus far. It’s not video, but I think, like you said, it’s, it’s the same kind of thing we talk about. The sort of doctrine of documenting versus creating that, the, this idea that, that we first heard coined by Gary Vaynerchuk, where you just record your process as you do your regular thing instead of carefully setting aside times to create content explicitly.

And I think that’s part of what we’re talking about here also is if you’re going to be doing something that is. Associated with whatever it is you make content about. It’s not a bad idea to plan to either capture a bunch of stuff on video even though you don’t think it’s useful, because you can always clip out like the two minutes in there that were gold.

Or, you know, have, have like the phone ready to hand and a minimal process for, if I decide I want to record what I’m doing right now, I know that I just need to do steps. One, two, three, four, five, hit record, you know, or maybe step one hit record, but there’s that idea.

Ben: [01:00:04] And, and it can also, like, it can be about preparing your environment. So. I’m in, I’m in the, the offshoot of the master bedroom that we, we call the studio for now. and you know, so like there are certain areas that I will, and I know I can point the camera toward that. And, and those places are always ready to be on camera.

Like there’s nothing distracting in the background or anything like that, but like. You know, I don’t, I wouldn’t point it toward my bedroom or like there, I wouldn’t have the camera on when I’m downstairs and the kitchen is a mess or something like that. Like I do, I do think ahead to where I’m going to want to record and make sure that those spaces, and it’s not, it’s not about being like, it has to be perfectly tidy and stuff.

It really is. It’s kind of a, a judgment of. Is there something that’s going to distract people from me and what I’m trying to say? Even with a messy background, you’re the most interesting thing in the frame for whoever’s watching, but just, you know, a little bit of thoughtfulness can remove some of that unwanted distraction.

And, and so having like, having spaces ready to go as part of being camera ready. But also people you’re, you’re way more conscious and aware of the mess than other people are. It’s like when someone comes over to visit, I had this, I do this all the time. Like someone comes over to visit. And, and especially if I was an expecting them, like I kind of apologetically stumble around the house and like pick things up and I’ll even, sometimes I’ll, I’ll like covertly, like just nonchalantly move things in and organize so that it looks like I’ve got it more together.

But when I go over to other people’s house, I might be aware that like, it’s kind of messy or disorganized, but it doesn’t bother me. And, and it doesn’t really distract me because I’m there to see them, you know? And, and so that’s, I mean, that’s another thing that I’m constantly having to work on is this idea that I am I, I’m just so much more aware of my flaws and my mistakes and my mess.

Then other people are, they, they barely notice.

Dan: [01:02:53] There. There’s a concept, psychological concept that I’m sure I’ve mentioned before because I love talking about our unconscious biases or cognitive biases that’s known as the spotlight effect, which describes how because we, well, we spend our whole lives in our own heads and everybody else in the world doesn’t.

And therefore we, we tend to vastly overestimate the amount of attention people are paying to us and, and the things they notice and then the thoughts and judgments they have about it. you know, I mean, the, the classic example is I can’t, as you know, starts when you’re like a teenager. I can’t leave the house cause I have a pimple on my face.

Ben: [01:03:33] Yeah.

Dan: [01:03:34] You know, the, the, the. Perhaps the one of the few things differentiating me in my late thirties for me as a teenager is that if I ever have thoughts like that now, I tend to think to myself, all of the people that I saw today enumerate which ones had pimples on their faces and I can’t think of a single one.

And then I think, well, is that probably because every other person in the world has perfect skin and I don’t? Or is it because I just didn’t notice. And therefore they almost certainly don’t notice my pimple and it doesn’t matter. And, you know, replace pimple with awkward stumbling over your words on a video, messy background.

you know, you, you, we are, we are all so much more worried about our own performance than anyone else’s is worried or, or cares, you know.

Ben: [01:04:23] That kind of a is a good segue into this other point that I wanted to make about. Especially about getting comfortable on camera in public. because this is like, there’s, there’s a difference between, you know, you’re filming something in the privacy of your home and it’s going to go out to people and they’re going to see your mistakes or whatever.

There’s a completely different kind of discomfort, or uncomfortable uncomfortableness. I’m just going to go with that. That comes from being.

Dan: [01:04:56] An uncomfortable ability,

Ben: [01:04:59] Yes. Out in public.

Dan: [01:05:02] discomfort. I

Ben: [01:05:07] Oh my goodness. You’re,

you’re killing it.

you were, you were talking about, you were talking about young people

Dan: [01:05:16] Yes.

Ben: [01:05:17] and, teenagers, you know, worried about the pimple on their nose or whatever. And I’m, this is, this is actually a question that I have, like, I’m not gonna, I’m not going to answer it or speak to it.  because I know, I know that, well, okay.

So for example, like  is huge with, with teens right now. It’s like, in terms of. It’s kind of like what Twitter was for for the generation older than us, or S, you know, still is ticktock. I feel like it’s kind of for our generation, like , it’s something that they seem to be very comfortable with and understand from, from the standpoint of creating content.

and I’m, I’m doing the work to try to understand it better, but I’m not quite there yet. cause I always, you know, I always want to be on the forefront of those things as much as I can. But, but some people look at that and I think as they have for, you know, decades now with teenagers and whatever new thing they’re into, and they say, Oh, they’re teenagers or so.

Full of themselves and narcissistic, and they get on the camera and they’d, you know. Mmm.

And it’s interesting to me because on the one hand, you do have this dynamic that that seems to suggest that teenagers maybe feel more comfortable on camera than your average person. and, and part of that might have to do with like, how, how they’ve grown up with the technology and it’s, it’s always been around.

And then on the other hand, I remember seeing a study where they were reading, like, I don’t, I don’t know if they were reading like EEG or, I was, I was pointing to my head reading like brainwaves or if they were just, yeah. Or if they were, if they were like taking the pulse or what they were looking for markers of stress and, and so they had, they had their subjects, like hooked up to these things and they would sit them in a store window just sitting in a chair as people walked by.

And as people walked by, they would measure. The stress levels and stuff like that. And in an adult, you did see a spike, but it was, you know, they, they quickly returned to normal and teenagers, it shot up super high and, and they were very self conscious. Mmm. And so that seems, that seems to conflict with.

This what appears to be high comfort level with being on camera, but they’ve, they’ve actually shown that it’s, it’s a developmental thing in teenagers and most teenagers, they are more self conscious. They think a lot more about what other people think of them. And then that starts to fade away a little bit as you, as you age and mature.

You develop out of that a little bit. But anyways, I just, I find that really fascinating.

Dan: [01:08:57] So the people that are the people that are watching this, that are teenagers who feel very self conscious. When I say watching, I guess, I mean listening, see, I’m getting all caught up in the video revolution here, but you know, if you’re a teenager, take heart because it, you do get less self conscious over time.

But for the people who have already gone through that period of their life and you know, you were, you started, you had started talking before I distracted you with, with my, my masterful wordplay. You were talking about this idea of getting more comfortable on camera in public and I’m not 100% sure what you meant by that.

Do you actually mean. Recording yourself. Cause here in the notes you’ve got something about the fear of being a Casey Neistat wannabe, which I’m not sure that’s actually in the diagnostic statistical manual yet, but, but is that what you’re talking about?

Ben: [01:09:43] Yeah. So, so tying, tying everything that I was saying back to that, I chased a bit of a rabbit trail there. Mmm. Even, even still though, we’ve. Developed out of some of that we, I think, many of us would get in public and turn the camera on ourselves and feel weird because not everybody is doing that.

You might see people like taking pictures of themselves, but talking to their phone or, or talking to an actual like DSLR camera. Mmm. So I think, I think there are a few different things going on there. There’s the fear of appearing narcissistic, like, Oh, look at me and my life is so interesting. I have to put a camera on myself at all times.

That’s, that’s something that I’ve experienced. fear of drawing attention to yourself because you’re doing something that’s unusual, you know, like, and, and you see it in, in. Vlogs, you know, people are walking down the street holding a camera, and as people walk by, like you can, you can see kind of in the periphery, people turning around and being like, Oh, what’s going on?

Mmm. And then I had this thing happen to me one time, like I was blogging. I was walking home from the elementary school where, where, I dropped off my kids walking home in the morning. And there are. High school students waiting out at the bus stop. And I’ve got my camera and I’ve got like the, the microphone on the camera and I’m holding it out and I’m talking to it.

And and some kids said something about like, Oh, you trying to be like Casey Neistat. Yeah. And that, so those, so that example is a very specific example to my experience. But insert.

Dan: [01:11:38] what we’ll hold on. Did you, did you turn to him and go, no.

Or you know,

Ben: [01:11:43] I ignored him. I just pretended he didn’t say anything. Mmm

Dan: [01:11:48] I think you guys could have bonded over your shared love of Casey Neistat though?

Ben: [01:11:52] we could have, but I was in the middle of a take and I, you know, so, Mmm. So, so I think, yeah, I think I’m not the only one for whom those kind of thoughts are going on. When you consider the idea of talking to a camera in public.

and it’s, and that’s, it’s just another one of those things where the more you do it, the more of a tolerance you build for doing it.

I mean, even even when I went to craft and commerce last year, where, you know, maybe one out of every 20 people . Doing some kind of social media video in public or maybe blogging or something that might be a little bit high, but, where it, where it’s pretty common. I still felt a little bit uncomfortable.

Like I could still feel that because I just haven’t done it enough. But what’s also true is that some opportunities come out of that. I had S I had a situation where I was in a coffee shop and I was blogging and I was taking B roll and somebody came up to me and they were like, Oh, Hey, are you, are you vlogging?

I’m actually getting into blogging and, and I made this connection with this person that I, I wouldn’t have otherwise made. And I think that kind of thing is becoming more and more common. You know, people, and, and this is, this is one of the things that I thought of earlier when. Mmm. When Jordan brought up the Marco polo app, like it’s, it’s now becoming more and more common that you’re communicating with people by recording quick video and sending it to them.

Like, that functionality is in the messages app. Like, you can even do that real quick. Mmm

And so I think, I think we’re, you know, we’re seeing more people. Do that kind of thing. But you could even like do this mental trick. Like you don’t want people to think you’re narcissistic or like you feel weird that maybe people think you’re making a blog and stuff. So you can just pretend you’re making a video for your aunt and you’re going to send it to her after you’re done.

You know, like if you have a big DSLR camera, that might be a little bit more difficult, but pretend you’re just making, Pretend you’re making a video that you’re just, you know, cataloging your trip and you’re going to watch it later. Mmm. Do you do something that kind of minimizes or maybe takes the focus off of what you are really doing it for, that you feel weird about until you’ve practiced it enough  that you start to feel comfortable.

Dan: [01:14:46] That’s, these are, these are good tips. I want to bring in something Laura said in the chat. She said, Laura, she says, I feel weird even taking the camera to take a picture of the place. And I, it just occurred to me that, you know, Laura, my advice to you is I’m, I’m sorry, you’re just going to have to start taking a camera everywhere.

So that it stops feeling weird because yeah, like you said, Ben, this is all, this is such a head game. This is all in our heads. Like aside from that one kid that one time, like no one else gives a. About this, you know? Or if they do, it pops into their mind for 10 seconds and then they’re right back to worrying about whatever is going on in their day.

You know? So the repetition works in two different ways. When you do something over and over, you stop worrying about it. But the other thing that we keep seeing happening is that stuff gets normalized. So right now, it’s still a little weird for someone to pull out a camera in public and record themselves.

But like next year it’ll be less weird, and five years from now it won’t be weird at all. I mean, it used to be weird to see someone walking down the street with white headphones and now it’s like, Oh, you mean those wireless headphones? No, I’m talking about wired headphones. Like when the iPod first came out, when Bluetooth headsets first became a thing, if you saw someone walking down the street talking out loud because they were on the phone, but they weren’t holding a thing up to the side of their face, you assumed that they were.

Probably had, you know, a mental disorder of some kind. Whereas now, generally when I see someone walking around talking to thin air, I just assumed they’re on the phone, you know, th this, this, so the stuff gets more normalized, that and that. So that’s one, you know that, that’s one thing where if you still feel really weird cause you’re on the cutting edge of blogging, don’t worry, because you know, soon everyone else will be doing it.

And like you said, Ben, I love that example of you’re doing it and someone walks up to you and goes, yeah. How do I do that?

Ben: [01:16:42] Yeah. Except except he was like, are you trying to be Casey Neistat or something?

Dan: [01:16:49] No, no. I’m talking about the other guy who you said you made a connection out

Ben: [01:16:52] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dan: [01:16:54] Yeah. I’m not worried about Casey Neistat kid, although clearly you still are,

Ben: [01:16:58] no, I’m not. I’m

Dan: [01:16:58] but here’s the other thing though, too. Is Casey Neistat, like, I don’t know anything about him. Is he like, is he a bad person? I assume not, but at the very least he has a very popular YouTube channel.

And you know, this is another thing that we struggle with a lot is, you know, not feeling like we are worthy of our own desires. And I will try to keep this, you know, I’ll try to keep a reign on this cause it’s a tangent to the topic, but maybe not like it. Ben, I would, I would submit to you that a perfectly appropriate response to that kid, even inside your own head, if not externally, is yeah, I want to be like Casey Neistat.

Of course. I want to be a famous video guy. If that’s your thing. If someone catches me writing a novel and they’re like, Oh, well, you want to be like James Patterson, I’d be like, yeah, of course I do. Of course, I want millions of people to read my creative work and be handsomely rewarded for it. Of course.

Don’t you.

Ben: [01:17:51] Yeah. So, and, and I think, I think the other layer to that maybe is. you, you know, like Casey Casey is using these gorilla pods for his video. So now, and, and this is, I, I’m, I’m thinking back like five years ago, four or five years ago, maybe, something like that. So Casey Neistat starts using these gorilla pods and you see them in all of his videos and stuff.

And. And then you see people using that tool. maybe he has a certain style that he’s doing with his, with his edits and his camera shots and stuff like that. And you start to see that kind of thing. And I think there’s, there’s a, I want to be like Casey Neistat in that I have. Mmm. I’m telling good stories that people are interested in.

And lots of people watch them. And you know, like I, I want that. But I also, I never want to be accused of being a copycat, you know? So I think, I think that’s another layer to it is like if James, if it was, if it was common knowledge that James Patterson wrote all of his novels on a Remington typewriter.

And like that was his thing. And you went out and got a Remington typewriter.

Dan: [01:19:28] I’m not 100% sure. I see where you’re going with this. Yeah.

Ben: [01:19:32] Well, where I’m, where I’m going with it is, it’s not just, it’s not just the fear of being perceived to, to be, to be pursuing something. Like what Casey Neistat does, but the fear of being perceived as, Oh, you’re just copying that person’s style and doing the things that they do. And that’s silly because you’re not going to, you’re not going to be a Casey Neistat.

And, and, and, and I’m not, I’m not saying that I’m hung up on that. I’m saying I think that’s another layer of what people experience. And so, like my answer to that would be. You. You do have to, in the beginning, you do have to try things out. And part of, part of what you do is you’re learning how to make videos and you’re finding your voice.

The only thing you can do really is use what you. What you see that you like and, and kind of copy those and work those in and remix them a little bit. And it’s over time and through much repetition that you synthesize those things. you take pieces of this and that and you turn it into something that is uniquely, uniquely yours.

It’s part of the process. Mmm. And, and so. I think that’s, that’s an important thing to remember, especially when you’re first starting out making video. If you F if you feel that fear of like, I’m just being a, people are gonna think I’m just being imposer people are, are gonna think that I’m just like being a copycat.

No, you’re, you are following the, the correct process for finding your voice. That’s what you’re doing.

Dan: [01:21:34] I remember Stephen King going back to writers again cause that’s my jam. Talking about this in his memoir that when he was young, I mean, he read a ton and he wrote a ton, but he would say that like when he read some HP Lovecraft, the next thing he wrote sounded like, like it read just like HP Lovecraft.

And when he read some Raymond Chandler, now his prose sounded like Raymond Chandler’s. And it was only after years and years of doing that, that when he writes stuff it, you know, consistently reads like Stephen King. Because you do, you have to develop that voice, but I just want to, I got to hammer on this point like one more time, is that this is the thing our are, that our brains do to ourselves is that like if some kid sees you with a camera and says, what are you trying to be Casey Neistat did, did that kid give you feedback on all of your videos about the ways in which you are copying Casey Neistat?

No, he hasn’t seen any of your videos. That person just. Saw something and then blurted out the first thing that occurred to them. But what we do, this is such a difficult thing to, to, you know, to get over, is that someone makes an offhand remark and we take it and use it as though it’s some sort of, you know, it’s like, like verifiable condemnation of our lifestyle.

Like that person doesn’t know you.

So, so you can, yes, you can ask yourself, am I copying Casey Neistat? And frankly, until you’ve made a hundred videos, it’s probably fine. Because like we said, you got to start somewhere, you know? But

Ben: [01:23:10] and nobody watches the first a hundred videos you make anyway. So

Dan: [01:23:14] I mean, you’re not kidding.

Ben: [01:23:17] I’m not entirely, I’m not entirely kidding.

Dan: [01:23:19] You’re not kidding there. And there’s a real freedom in that. Frankly, there’s a freedom in not having an audience. Cause that’s the other thing. Like even if you’re making videos like Casey Casey has the pressure of 16 million people or however many watching everything he produces.

Ben: [01:23:34] Yeah. He has to make videos like Casey.

Dan: [01:23:37] Well, and, and he can, because he’s gotten to that point that this is a nice thing. Right? The nice thing is that for almost all of us, we don’t really get dropped in the deep end. You know, none of us like get out of bed tomorrow and walk out of our bedroom and suddenly instead of walking into our hallway, we walked onto the stage at Ted and there’s like 100,000 people that expect us to give a really, you know.

an incredible speech that’s then going to be put on YouTube and watched by 20 million people. You know what I mean? Like we don’t wake up and suddenly we’re Brenae Brown or we’re Casey Neistat. We get to start with just sending a video to our friend and then just sending a video to the like two people who are probably also friends of ours that subscribe to our YouTube channel.

We have time to get good at this.

Ben: [01:24:24] Well, and, and as it relates to this idea of filming yourself in public, you also don’t have to throw yourself into the deep end. You know, you can start. Small and work your way up. So I was, I was actually thinking about New York, specifically New York city when I was thinking of this idea. because there’s a big difference between walking through central park and getting onto the subway in terms of the density and just.

Sheer number of people. And, and so if, if you’re trying to get used to filming yourself in public dude, in a place where they’re not so many eyes, that it becomes petrifying and you might be able to talk yourself out of it, you know, do, do what’s tolerable and work your way up to the subway. But don’t start there.

Dan: [01:25:32] Yeah, definitely don’t start on the New York city subway, especially if you don’t even live in New York. I mean, we’re talking about hopping on a plane just to record some . Videos.

Ben: [01:25:40] Oh gosh. I mean, recording on a plane too. You have to sit with those people. I have this, I was, I was filming a vlog one time and I had my, I did this trick where I had my camera turned on, but it was like upside down so that it didn’t look like it. Was on, even though it was, but there was this guy in first class, he was wise to me.

He stared right into the lens and had this look on his face like, I know what you’re doing. He didn’t, he didn’t seem very happy. I never, I didn’t put him in one of my videos, but I still have the clip. And as I was, as I was scrubbing through and editing, I caught that and I was like, Oh, yeah, okay.

Everybody else ignored it, but this one guy, he’s like, you better not that better not make it into the final edit.

Dan: [01:26:32] And now you watch, you watch that video clip every day just to remind you of the importance of something.

Oh, that made me laugh so hard. I’m going to have to edit it out of the final recording. we have, we have a, we got a couple of community questions that we might as well touch on, but first, as I usually do, I would just want to check, did you have other stuff.

That you wanted to to touch on, Ben? I mean, I think we’ve really covered a lot, which is awesome.

Ben: [01:26:59] Yeah, I am. I just want, I wanted to touch on a couple of more of the benefits real quick, cause we talked about, I, like I mentioned that in-person encounter, like if you’re, if you’re out, Mmm. On camera publicly like you, you might actually get opportunities that you didn’t foresee. And I think that’s really cool.

But the pressure, and this is just just in general, the pressure of delivering on camera, especially if you work your way up to doing it live, can improve your ability to speak publicly. You know, whether that’s doing conference talks or giving an interview or something like that, it prepares you for those things.

you never know when those skills might come in handy. And having the ability to speak and communicate well publicly is, it is a tremendously valuable skill. So, so one of the, one of the benefits of just practicing. Being on camera is that you develop that skill. And then also I just, I love the idea of having stuff that you can look back on.

I have, this isn’t video, but I have journals that I keep, I use composition notebooks because I know they’re always going to be the same width and everything. And Rachel made this nice cloth cover that I just slipped them into. And before I start one, I write the date. That I started it and when I finish it, I take it out and I write the date that I finished it.

And so I’ve got this block of time. Well, I can look back and I can see like, Oh, what was I, what was I doing 10 years ago? What were the things that I was thinking about or concerned about or what was my to do list that day? Or, you know, all of those things are on record. And. There’s something as far as personal growth is concerned in and your ability to kind of see how far you’ve come.

A lot of us, Oh gosh, a lot of us could do with, with having a clear picture of how far we’ve actually come, because I think we tend to be a lot harder than are a lot harder on ourselves and. You know, think I just, I haven’t grown in the past 10 years. It feels like nothing has happened, but if you really had a clear picture of where you were 10 years ago, you’ve, you would see that you’ve come a long way.

so I’ve, I feel like being consistent about producing videos is a way of creating a kind of archive that you can look back on, that you can benefit from in those ways as well.

Dan: [01:29:49] Yeah. Having those, and again, it’s even, you know, recording, you mentioned journaling, but even if you did like a video journal, like, like if part of producing videos was that you produced videos that no one’s going to see, but you, it’s all, it’s all practice, right? It’s all putting in those wraps.

Jordan’s said.

I used to speak publicly as part of my job, but then hid my introverted self away for a few months to recover. Now I’m struggling to get back that confidence and clarity that I had when presenting any ideas for getting comfortable again on camera when all the old fears and none of the old confidence is coming back.

Ben: [01:30:26] Yeah. So I know Jordan has been writing, but, and that’s something we didn’t really bring up in this whole episode, but that’s, that’s actually a really great way to, to grow your confidence, for public speaking is writing because. writing consistently because as you, as you write over time, you develop your voice, but you also, you, you develop the ability to communicate your thoughts and ideas.

Mmm. So that when you, when you are speaking publicly, which I’m struggling to do right now, when you are speaking publicly. You feel that sense of clarity, and so I think clarity in this case breeds confidence. It’s like I could, there are certain things that you’d like. You could pull me up on stage. I don’t even have to write down notes because I’m so clear on what I think and believe and know about a specific topic that I could just speak on it for.

You know, 45 minutes. There are other things that I’m, you know, I would need to sit down and, and write and practice and rehearse and stuff, but it’s because I haven’t written about those things. So I think that that just the practice, the, the intentional practice of writing about the topics that you’re, that you intend to speak about if you’re doing public speaking, it can be really powerful, a really powerful way to get that confidence back through clarity.

Dan: [01:32:12] And Jordan. Jordan is an excellent writer. And so that, that really might be a great step for her to start with is to just, you know, start with writing, writing something out, writing an outline, and then recording it. You know, start, start where you do feel strong, start with writing and then, and then record that and start to leverage that back into.

Getting comfortable. You know what occurred to me when I saw this question first was to ask, well, how did you get comfortable with public speaking the first time? Because obviously she did somehow, right? So what sorts of things can you, can you take from that? And then, you know, the other thing, obviously if she took a few months away and now feels like she’s lost the confidence this, this isn’t that helpful without a time machine, but I’d say that in the future, the next time you need a break to recharge.

Consider something that you know mentioned a few minutes ago, which is like video journaling, like creating private videos. If you need to get away from the pressure of public speaking, don’t stop speaking like, don’t stop the recording part. Just, you know, do stuff in private or drop back to something like Marco polo where you’re just sending messages to friends just so that it keeps feeling natural to show up on video.

Ben: [01:33:32] They’re also like, especially what I’ve, what I’ve experienced with public speaking. Is that  and performing and all of that is, is that I can feel like I feel really strongly those, those feelings of, there are people in the audience there. They’re watching me, they’re expecting me to say something valuable, and if I don’t deliver on that, that’s a problem.

If I am distracting because of the way I’m speaking, that’s a problem. And. And so it’s, it’s become, with practice, it’s become easier to overcome that. There’s also a way that you can use this, you know, like speak to one person idea and then. All of those things that I think some public speakers tend to do intuitively, like making eye contact with audience members and using gestures and stuff like that.

Like for some people, that comes a lot more naturally than others. Mmm. And so how do you, how do you focus on speaking to one person when you have to make eye contact with different people in the audience? And use gestures and all of these things. Well, I think those, if you kind of compartmentalize it and you think of those as well, these are just practiced behaviors that one does to be a more effective speaker and, and you kind of, you kind of think of those not as like, that’s a translation of your level of comfort with the audience.

But more, these are things that you do to be an effective speaker. It’s a way of kind of short-cutting your brain so that you’re focusing on something else. And then with the speaking to one person thing, I think that even though you’re making eye contact with different members of the audience, you can kind of do this thing where you do look at a single person in the audience.

You don’t look at a patch of people, but you try to find a single person.

Dan: [01:35:50] You speak to different people, but you speak to one person at a time, right.

Ben: [01:35:54] Right. Speak to 1% at a time. And if it helps, try to imagine that that person is maybe, you know, somebody different who is leaning forward in their seat, hanging on your every word. It is encouraging and because, because the more you feel that way, the more that’s going to come across. And then the more that is going to be the case and it kind of becomes this positive.

Feedback cycle I’ve had, I’ve had situations where like I felt really nervous and I got up on stage and I started speaking and the audience, because of how engaged and interested they seemed actually helped me feel more at ease. And you know, sometimes it, often it works the other way around. Like you’ve, you’ve seen performances before where the performer, you could tell they were uncomfortable and nervous.

And it made you feel nervous for them, which probably made them feel more nervous and.

Dan: [01:36:53] absolutely. Yes. And, and I think I agree with you that I, I really think that the best thing to do if you’re public speaking is, you know, even if there’s a stage and you are physically a couple of feet above everyone else in the room. Is to like remind yourself that you’re the same as everyone in the audience.

You’re just the one who’s talking. And so that idea that like if you go up on stage and you’re really nervous, it’s like if you’re standing there and you’re just like, Mmm, Mmm Mmm Mmm Mmm. Everyone is kind of watching and like, yeah, they’re, they’re feeling that like empathetic sort of, Oh God. Like I can feel what it, what they must be feeling and I don’t like it.

I think if you are up on that stage and you, instead, you kind of go up there and go, Oh man. Man, I’m really nervous. You guys have it easy. You just have to sit there and look at how nervous I am, but me, I mean, I’m up here and I’ll, I don’t know, I’m, I’m riffing off the top of my head. But you know, that idea.

And then especially if you can like find people in the audience, you said, imagine that the person you’re looking at is engaged with the presentation. Well, look for the people in the audience that are engaged in the presentation and you know, and here’s a, here’s a, here’s a little hack that occurs to me, is that, you know.

If you want to find those people, start your presentation by asking some, doing some audience engagement going up there. And if you’re talking about like risk management in the, you know, fin financial industry or something like that, incredibly exciting topic. Go in there and be like, Hey, who’s excited to learn about risk management today and see what kind of reaction you get.

And if someone like, you know, whether they’re doing it ironically or not, if someone shoots their hand up and is like, yeah, and they’re laughing. Those are the people, they’re going to be engaged in what you have to say. So now focus on those people and be like, this is great, isn’t it? Now I’m giving my talk, and it does become this positive feedback cycle of the better a response you get from the audience, the more at ease you will feel and the more at ease you feel, the better response you’ll get.

Ben: [01:38:46] Yeah, absolutely. And that doesn’t automatically make. The, the discomfort and the nervousness go away, but these are things that can help. Mmm. So that’s a great question though. Thanks for that, Jordan.

Dan: [01:39:03] Yeah. That that is a good one. It also just, you know, it also occurred to me that everything we just said about public speaking applies very well to making videos.

Ben: [01:39:11] Yeah, absolutely.

Dan: [01:39:13] can’t see your audience. You have to imagine this one encouraging person. But everything else about talking with gestures and focusing on one person, I mean, they really do.

They go well together. So, so I mean, we have another question, but I think it would be a perfect fit for the after show because it’s a bit of a tangential topic. So Ben, you want to wrap this up?

Ben: [01:39:33] Dan, where can people go to find a sunlight.

Dan: [01:39:36] You can go to Shawn And join us in the Shawn West membership. You get to be in the community. we are in there all the time and there are lots of other people, you know, there’s people in different time zones. So there’s almost always someone that you can chat about things with. You get to create conversations.

And, we just had a really interesting one yesterday, a new member was asking about. How to apply a value based pricing, which is a concept from one of our courses, which are all free to members. They were asking, how do I apply these concepts or can I apply these to getting a job where I would have an equity stake, like where they would be getting paid in equity in the company as opposed to salary, which is an an uncommon topic for our membership.

But it’s super interesting to get these different perspectives

Ben: [01:40:26] Yeah.

Dan: [01:40:27] on things.

Ben: [01:40:28] that’s really cool.

Dan: [01:40:29] So yes, go to Shawn and see what we’ve got to offer there and then join the membership cause we’d love to have you here. Ben, where can they find, where can they find you online?

Ben: [01:40:40] You can find and I’m at Ben Tolson on all of the things and Dan, what about you?

Dan: [01:40:47] You can find and I am at DJ Jacobson, author on Instagram. Good show, sir.

Ben: [01:40:56] Yeah, it was a good show. I don’t have that sound bite yet. One of these days I’m going to add it.

Dan: [01:41:02] One of these days.

Well, I feel a lot more comfortable being on video. Just, just from having done this, this podcast. And so Ben, maybe someday we will actually have, have streaming video that people we’ll be able to watch.

Ben: [01:41:57] So funny thing is I actually turned the live stream. On. We’ve been streaming this whole time.

Dan: [01:42:03] Wow.

Ben: [01:42:04] I’m just kidding. No, we haven’t.

Dan: [01:42:06] man. Gotta get got to gotta give me some winning cause I gotta gotta dress dress for success on these, on these video shows now. So, I know we were going to probably talk about futurism as we are wanting to do, but I wanna make sure we don’t miss a question that Tony asked before the show started.

Tony asks, does it matter which platform we start with? I’m posting on Instagram daily because it’s a low barrier to entry. It’s so quick to shoot in post, and it automatically posts to Facebook too. When you’re documenting your progress. How many platforms should you post too? And you see, this is a bit of a tangent cause we can, you know, tell me if you have a different opinion, Ben.

I think that just for the purpose of getting comfortable on camera, it doesn’t matter what platform you post to. But.

Ben: [01:42:53] Well, the, so one of the points that we kind of made in the show or that, or that I think I was making was this idea that I think shorter form this, like, like you said, a femoral kind of content that is going to go away in 24 hours. I think that’s an easier place to start because it’s not as permanent that people don’t have as high of a quality expectation for that medium.

Mmm. And, and quality in terms both of like what the shot looks and sounds like and how the content is delivered. So, so I think, I actually think that that is a great place to start where, where Tony is starting with, I’m posting to Instagram and it how it posts automatically to Facebook. That to me is.

Easier than, I mean, it’s, it’s also like, it’s way less time consuming than putting something together for YouTube where you’re actually like shooting and editing video and that kind of thing. Mmm. So as far as I think, I think the progression as far as comfort level is concerned goes like, you, you do these, you do these takes, you know, these.

40 to 60. Second takes four, for Instagram and, and Facebook. And you can always do another take if you need to and like find the one that you’re comfortable with. but you don’t have to do a lot of editing or anything like that. You can just do it in, post it, and then it goes away. And then the next level up from that is kind of scaling that up.

Doing that same kind of process, but in a a little bit more intentional. I wouldn’t, I won’t say professional, but I’d say a more intentional setup where you’re considering how, you know, like you’re thinking about the framing or maybe using a separate audio source and stuff like that. Mmm. And. And just scaling up that process of doing these takes, but then you’re editing the takes together to make a longer form piece of video content.

That could be something more like five minutes or 10 minutes.

Dan: [01:45:23] Would you say it’s a good idea to do that scaling up of the production quality. Let’s call it production quality. Would you do that scaling up of the production quality before you start trying to pursue additional platforms to the, let’s say you start on Instagram.

Ben: [01:45:39] Yeah, so, so I don’t think you like what you start doing on Instagram. Quality production, quality wise, you never need to scale up. I’m thinking more in terms of like moving to. Doing longer form video, like on YouTube or you know, publishing natively to Facebook or LinkedIn. Mmm.

Dan: [01:46:01] I guess that’s what I’m saying is, should you get some practice doing higher quality slash more edited slash longer form stuff. Before you start posting your content on YouTube or.

Ben: [01:46:13] Not necessarily. And in fact, I mean, it doesn’t make any sense to do that kind of thing. For. for the Instagram videos. So really the only place you can do it is, are they the only place it makes sense to do it as four YouTube, or like if you’re doing native upload to Facebook or LinkedIn, where, and, and it’s just gonna take, it’s gonna take time and you’re first, you know, 20 videos are gonna be bad.

Dan: [01:46:50] Tony. Tony asked a follow up here. She said in response to what you were saying, so more of an IGT V versus stories, because I G T V does support longer form video. Let me put my question in slightly different context because here’s where I’m going. I perceive in Tony’s question, so Tony obviously tell me if I’m way off, but when you’re documenting your progress, how many platforms should you post to?

I think. There is, there’s a lot of friction or a lot of uncertainty that we get mired in about the fact that I’m posting to Instagram, but what if it’s not enough? Shouldn’t I also be posting too? YouTube, Twitter, LinkedIn, Pinterest, tech talk, you know, they’re, my live journal might still be a website. I don’t know.

Like it’s, it’s easy to do that. It’s easy to start out in this content production game. And get really worried that you’re doing it wrong. Yeah. So, so I know that we, you know, we’ve got to wrap this one up quick, but I just want us to touch on this idea that like, I think there’s value in doing one thing well in one place.

Before you let yourself get overwhelmed. And so maybe you know, a like IGT V maybe that is an opportunity to just keep all your stuff on Instagram, but start playing around with slightly longer, more complicated videos before you add an entirely new platform to your process. Like YouTube.

Ben: [01:48:12] Yeah, I’d agree with that, but I would also, I would put Instagram TV. In the same category of longer form video content as YouTube and Facebook, which I think is what Tony is, is saying as the next step up. But if you’re already on the Instagram platform and you’re feeling comfortable with that, doing stories, then IgE TV might be a good place to go before you try to try to launch out and grow, a YouTube channel.

So, yeah, I, I agree with you on that for sure. And then eventually, ultimately, getting to longer form live video content, which you can do, Mmm. On all of the platforms. So yeah, that’s, I feel like that’s the progression, but it’s got to start with that shorter form quick stuff.

Dan: [01:49:04] That’s great. Cool. Well, I mean, I encourage anyone who wants to do this to, to treat it as a progression and to make a plan to . Say, if you put, you know, a series of steps and at the end is, you know, doing live shows on all the platforms you can backwards build all the way back to just posting a video like an Instagram story video really simply every single day and build up slowly.

Because the thing that I really want to help people get past is that feeling of being overwhelmed. That comes from the sheer amount of opportunities we have to create videos and share them.

Ben: [01:49:39] Yeah. And, and look for, like, I’d be remiss not to say that there are opportunities for both forward and backward compatibility in terms of repurposing content. So some of the shorter form content that you’re creating can be pieced together and put into a longer form video. you can’t necessarily, or I mean, as you’re creating that shorter form content, you can be recording yourself live doing that.

and then on from the opposite direction, you can do something live that you then turn into a shorter form piece of content that would be appropriate for YouTube or IgE TV. That you could also like take pieces and bits out of and turn into smaller social media posts. So there’s, it’s not like you’re adding all of these necessarily adding all of these other different types of video content.

They can all just be one thing that can split off into other mediums, but all right. I think unless you’ve got anything to add.

Dan: [01:50:44] Well, well, I’m going to put the button on it with this because we did a great show. You and Sean did a little while ago, was episode four, four and nine how to create daily content. And it really gets into the weeds about exactly how to, you know, repurpose content from multiple platforms and how to build a process where you can have the maximum impact with the minimum amount of work.

So there’s your little golden nugget for people who listened all the way to the end of the show.

Ben: [01:51:07] There you go.