Download: MP3 (86.2 MB)

Do you want to travel the world—or even travel your own country—with nothing but the pack on your back? Imagine that freedom—knowing you’ve already got everything you need.

There’s that line, “The things you own… end up owning you.” Well, what if you didn’t need to own hardly anything?

Between remote jobs and AirBnb, that unfettered life has never been more accessible…

But you could never actually do it, of course! You have a job, a car, an apartment… or maybe even a house. You’ve got leases and responsibilities and you’ve got a really nice couch.

But if there’s a part of you that just wishes you could pack it all up and hit the road…

Maybe it’s time to listen to that voice.

And if the voice is too quiet to hear… Sean is here to amplify it. In this call I had with Sean, he aims to prove that you can travel the world if you really want to. Yes, even you. Despite all the reasons and excuses… if this is what you really want, you can do it. This show will give you a lot to think about… and you might need to think twice about how much you really want that couch.

Enjoy the show.

Episode Transcript

Note: This transcript of the episode was machine-generated and has not been edited for correctness. It’s provided for your convenience when searching. Please excuse any errors.

Dan: [00:00:00] Hey, it’s Dan here. Do you want to travel the world or even travel your own country with nothing but the pack on your back? Imagine that freedom knowing you’ve already got everything you need. There’s that line. The things you own end up owning you. Well, what if you didn’t need to own hardly anything between remote jobs and Airbnb?

That unfettered life has never been more accessible. But you could never actually do it. Of course, you have a job, a car, an apartment, maybe even a house. You’ve got leases and responsibilities and you’ve got a really nice couch. But if there’s a part of you that just wishes you could pack it all up and hit the road, maybe it’s time to listen to that voice.

And if the voice is too quiet to hear, well, Sean is here to amplify it. In this call I had with Sean, he aims to prove that you can travel the world if you really want to. Yes. Even you, despite all the reasons and excuses, if this is what you really want, you can do it. This show will give you a lot to think about and you might need to think twice about how much you really want that couch.

Enjoy the show.

Sean: [00:01:34] Always be courting.

Dan: [00:01:35] Yeah, you’re right.

Sean: [00:01:37] There we go.

Dan: [00:01:38] all right. Now it’s recording.

stop trying to make cording happen.

Sean: [00:01:44] Old fashioned relationship advice.

Dan: [00:01:49] Ah, got it.

Sean: [00:01:51] Oh, your stand.

Dan: [00:01:52] Yeah,

Sean: [00:01:53] There you go.

Dan: [00:01:54] I missed one today.

Sean: [00:01:56] Yeah, it happens.

Dan: [00:01:57] It’s easy to sit at this computer. Well, actually speaking of easy to sit at this computer, Shaun, I did something the other day.

Sean: [00:02:05] Well, good for you then.

Dan: [00:02:07] I’m not, I don’t know how I feel about it.

Sean: [00:02:09] Oh, okay.

Dan: [00:02:11] I finally ordered that air on chair.

Sean: [00:02:13] Oh no. I was going to talk about this on the, on our, that’s like the reason I wanted to have a conversation with you. It was about that chair

Dan: [00:02:21] Really

Sean: [00:02:23] indirectly.

Dan: [00:02:24] sometimes you can’t tell when he’s kidding and when he’s not, I can’t take this stool, Sean. I can’t take it anymore. And last week I spent a lot of time in it writing emails and I was just like, Nope.

Sean: [00:02:35] Okay. Well, here’s the good news. You know, in the air on chair, is like an Apple product. It holds its value.

Dan: [00:02:43] Oh, no. I hate where this is going already.

Sean: [00:02:45] You love where this is going. What was the email you forwarded to me.

Dan: [00:02:50] it was about, digital nomad did tree

Sean: [00:02:53] Oh, okay.

Dan: [00:02:54] and a tree. No, ma’am. Nope. Nation.

Sean: [00:02:57] It’s a lot of, yep. Appendices.

Dan: [00:03:01] The appendix is if his digital organ, Sean.

Sean: [00:03:04] Yeah. What’s the, what am I thinking? Not a, is it a suffix?

Dan: [00:03:08] Suffixes, go at the end and prefixes go at the beginning

Sean: [00:03:12] And the appendix goes.

Dan: [00:03:14] somewhere in your body. But I’m not a doctor.

Sean: [00:03:17] Some people get rid of it.

Dan: [00:03:18] Yeah. Well, the, I think they, they have to cause bad stuff can happen to it. And any way.

Sean: [00:03:24] Yeah. Yeah. So nomad life, you were, you were saying maybe,

maybe that’s something you do. You did say you were jealous. I was importantly.

Dan: [00:03:35] Yeah, that’s true. See, I, you know what, the nomad thing hasn’t appealed to me so much as I think just like trying to go and live someplace else that isn’t here.

Sean: [00:03:48] Okay. Well, what are the downsides of Vancouver? Cause this is in my near future.

Dan: [00:03:53] Yup.

Sean: [00:03:55] I’m coming there.

Dan: [00:03:56] Yeah. Do you want to know if you should cancel your travel plans. Okay. mostly, just, all right. Mostly it’s expensive.

Just some, when I hear about people talking about, I got this great lifestyle and like Ecuador, and it cost me $500 a month, and I’m like, my apartment costs me 1570 a month. Like,

Sean: [00:04:15] Is it a studio or a one bedroom

Dan: [00:04:18] so why? It’s a one bedroom and that’s, and that’s cheap. Like I’m getting a deal, frankly, I think, the price of a one bedroom in Vancouver’s. On average, it’s probably more like 1800

Sean: [00:04:29] Do you have a, a sense of what it’s like comparable to a well known U S city?

Dan: [00:04:36] Eh? Not really sure. You can

Sean: [00:04:39] Probably between San Antonio and San Francisco.

Dan: [00:04:43] probably. Yes. Well, I don’t know how much stuff costs in San Antonio.

Sean: [00:04:48] No, no, they, they pay you for everything. You go get groceries and you just get like a little voucher.

Dan: [00:04:53] Oh, that’s fantastic.

Sean: [00:04:55] Yeah. Well, I mean, when we say cost of living is great, people don’t really understand.

Dan: [00:05:01] Evidently not.

Sean: [00:05:02] You go to the gas station and it’s like, you know, how much money would you like.

Dan: [00:05:08] Well, I heard in San Francisco, the people that sleep on the park benches are only paying maybe 500 a month for those,

Sean: [00:05:16] Yeah, I mean it’s shared, but

Dan: [00:05:18] Right. But it’s, it’s not that on affordable is what I’m saying. You always hear these crazy stories, but come on.

Sean: [00:05:25] it’s a two seater

plus when you’re, when you’re a bench mates gone, you can kinda like stretch out, like lay down horizontally

Dan: [00:05:34] Yeah. Well you can’t really, cause they put those things in the middle to make it uncomfortable to lie down, but you can try.

Sean: [00:05:41] That’s Turkey.

Dan: [00:05:43] Yeah. Silicon Valley.

Sean: [00:05:46] No nomad life. It’s pretty great. Dan. I was telling Lacy like I, I said, isn’t it crazy how relatively infrequently we think about San Antonio. And Lacey was like, well, no, I still think about it like once a week. I’m like, lazy. That’s infrequent.

Dan: [00:06:05] Yeah. It’s just once a week.

Sean: [00:06:07] Yeah. We, I mean I just had chips and salsa. It’s going to be okay, Dan.

Dan: [00:06:16] Right.

Sean: [00:06:16] That’s what I was worried about. Really the only thing I was going to miss, there’s going to be the food cause it’s great food. I like the TexMex. I like the breakfast tacos, but. Hey, Lacey can make breakfast tacos anywhere

Dan: [00:06:31] That’s true. And other places do have pretty good food. I mean, you always hear the people, new Yorkers are, are notorious for this about, Oh, you can’t get real food item X in this other place. But.

Sean: [00:06:45] you’re, you’re right. There is actually, there’s food, there’s good food. There’s, there’s everything you need. I mean, I got some, I got a bottle of hand sanitizer. Like you can buy that anywhere.

Dan: [00:06:57] You can just get it wherever.

Sean: [00:06:58] I had some shorts that I packed. They were like 10 years old and they were just falling apart. I had to throw them away at the last place.

I’m like, I need some new shorts. I had only bought, brought one pair of shorts and so just they have a target here in Portland, walked into the target, got some shorts for $12 they have everything you need everywhere. I was so afraid of forgetting something, Dan, and it doesn’t matter.

Dan: [00:07:23] Let’s see. I grew up, you know, I just, I just learned this from growing up, which is when you travel, you’ve got to pack a bag full of all your things, like toiletries. You’ve got to get your toothpaste, you got to get your, and then, you know, they instituted all these regulations for. you know, a hundred milliliters for all your liquids to take on a flight.

You know, people, younger people might not realize this, but you used to be able to bring like, potentially even the 250 milliliter thing of, say, like a large toothpaste or a deodorant or something. Used to just be able to bring that right on there, right on the plane. But after, you know, seven or eight planes got blown up that way, so they stopped.

I mean, I’ve gone through the security and they were like, wait, you can’t take this deodorant? And I was like, Oh, okay, we’ll throw it away. And then the, the amazing thing I realized was when I landed in the other city in Canada that I was traveling to, they sell deodorant there. Like, you don’t need any of this crap really.

Sean: [00:08:18] It’s real. It’s true. Probably sounds silly to hear us talk about it, but this is really the type of thing that would hold me back.

Dan: [00:08:25] Well. Yeah, because you don’t even think about it. Like if you’re, if you’re going to spend three weeks in the back country somewhere, then you better make sure you bring your toiletries, I guess. But if you’re just going to another city where they sell this stuff everywhere, just.

Sean: [00:08:40] Yeah. I was worried that my little, my little travel bodywash like, Oh no, this is going to run out and a couple of weeks, here’s what I’ve found is like. Yeah. Every once in a while you, you stay in a place like an Airbnb that isn’t top-notch, that doesn’t provide extra, you know, toiletries and stuff. But all you have to do is find one that does.

And here’s a little tip. Once you empty your bodywash container, just fill it up with the body wash that’s provided,

Dan: [00:09:08] Yeah.

Sean: [00:09:09] reuse the container,

Dan: [00:09:11] Just reuse it. Just fill it back up.

Sean: [00:09:13] or, you know, buy some more. But I was like, I was so worried. It’s, it’s it’s pretty good, Dan, you should consider it. But that’s, that’s why I was wanting to have this call as you were talking about getting, Aaron chair, and at the same time talking about just traveling, cause you have a job that, that allows you to do that and you would just need a laptop, but you can’t bring the air on.

Share this. And I’m worried about.

Dan: [00:09:41] I mean, if there were just some way, if there was some way to travel with an air on chair.

Sean: [00:09:45] You know, one place I stayed had one had my old chair. I didn’t even sit in it though.

Dan: [00:09:50] No. Well, that would make you feel like you were back, you know, like that. Now suddenly you’re not on sabbatical anymore. You’d suddenly, there would be like four computer monitors in front of you and like a two by two matrix.

Yeah. No,

it’s not what the sabbaticals about.

Sean: [00:10:07] But, but I’m, I’m serious, Dan. I’m actually really enjoying this. I can’t believe how much stuff we used to have. Can you Lacey? She says, no. It’s like, what? What do we do with all this stuff? You just stored it like w when I need this random thing, you know, it said Dan, the place we lived in last, we lived there the longest of all the places we’ve lived.

When w w you know, since we’d been married maybe four years. And there was a bin of, you know, you have that kind of like junk bin for your computer stuff that’s like random adapters and old cables and things like, surely I’ll need to connect a USB type a or, you know, a micro USB.

Dan: [00:10:53] Surely I’ll, I’ll find something that still has a serial port and I’ll need.

Sean: [00:10:58] have, I have one of those bins, yes. With cereal and. And I realized when I was packing everything up, I never opened it. So that, that whole trick of, you know, if you’re trying to like minimize the amount of stuff you have of putting stuff in a box, a cardboard box, tape it up, put the date on it, and then if you don’t open it within six months.

Just get rid of it. It’s, it’s a great trick. I didn’t do it, so I just had a been sitting around for four years that I never even used. And now I’m wondering like, how do we, I don’t, I don’t miss anything. And, and we’re just living out of a backpack, you know, every, everything we have is in the backpack. You really don’t need much more than a few shirts.

I still, we have a, a plastic wash bag and like. You know, soap and stuff for washing our clothes in a bag by hand, like it’s a, it’s called a scrubber. It’s got these little kind of like bumps on the inside to help, you know, kinda, 

Dan: [00:12:03] That helps to help scrubber it

Sean: [00:12:06] and I still haven’t, I still haven’t had to use it because even though some Airbnbs don’t provide a washer and dryer, we have enough clothes to last until the next one. That does. But even if we had to, it’s not the end of the world, you know? And so few few changes of clothes, a iPhone, iPad, like I’m looking around, glasses, water, bottle chargers, toiletries, like you really just don’t need much.

And I haven’t missed anything.

Dan: [00:12:41] I remember,  talking about this, like, I don’t think he wasn’t traveling at the time. I don’t think he was traveling to different countries, but he was just like living out of Airbnbs for a few months at a time, like he’s sold as houses or whatever. I, it’s impossible to tell from the way that guy writes, whether he’s a multi-trillion air or like on his last $5.

And it kinda sounds like he bounces between the two States every couple of months. But.

Sean: [00:13:06] He, he does like to talk about that.

Dan: [00:13:08] Well.

Sean: [00:13:10] I haven’t been subscribed to his newsletter in a while, but I, I, I have followed him on Twitter for some years, so I’m familiar with his writing. This conversation you and I are having about being a digital nomad started from you forwarding me one of his newsletters, but if I recall correctly, it wasn’t, it wasn’t.

Him. Right? It was someone else, like a guest that was writing on his newsletter.

Dan: [00:13:34] Yeah, you know, I gotta be honest with you. I forward it to you and I’m not even sure I read it that carefully. Yes. Ian Robinson is the founder of freedom podcasting company, LLC, and as the host of the love affair travel podcast, I’m reading from this email now, this month, he shares his top nine secrets for living the life of a digital nomad, someone who can work online from anywhere in the world and isn’t tied to a specific location.

Yeah. I think for me, as far as being tied to a specific location, I like having a home.

So it’s, it’s not, so, you know,

I’ve, like over the last couple of years I went from. You know, I was married, my wife and I had lots of stuff and we, we never denied ourselves anything. So we went into a lot of debt and we were always under a lot of stress because we had all this, you know, it was very much of the things you own, own you situation.

Like we had a mortgage, we own this place. And it was great and we loved it. Except we were also kind of, you know, financially and psychologically buried under all the stuff we had. So.

Sean: [00:14:40] He felt trapped.

Dan: [00:14:42] Yeah,

Sean: [00:14:43] Thank you. If you wanted to go travel the world, you, you kinda couldn’t.

Dan: [00:14:47] well, and my wife in particular was a really big proponent of travel, so she was, I think, I think a dog to her that she, she had felt like before we got together, she would travel a lot and she just like, you know, managed her finances. Or, you know, and maybe she didn’t manage them, I don’t know. But she likes, she just arranged her life in a way that she could travel as much as she wanted, seemingly.

And for whatever reason, when we were together, like we had more money in, less freedom is what it always felt like. And I don’t have to, you know, don’t need to dig too deep into the details of all this stuff because it’s, I don’t want to, but, yeah. Suffice to say, like, eventually we split up, I moved out and I just took, like, not very much with me.

I mean, like I. She, you know, she stayed in our condos and just, I just said, okay, like most of this stuff, just leave it. It’s fine. We’re gonna, we’ll end up selling our place. But in the meantime, you know, you live there. I’m just going to take what I need. So I took like, I like got a mattress from a friend and just stuck it on the floor of this crappy apartment.

I rented. I had my, I didn’t have bookshelves. I just had my books piled next to this mattress. And it was like, and that’s how I’ve lived for six months. And. It always felt transient. It never felt like this is how I’m going to stay. But, but I did. There was something I liked about it. There was a sense of freedom in it and let you know, leave aside for the moment, the freedom of having left that relationship, but just the like, not really.

Not being like, Oh, I have all this stuff. What am I going to do? And then I moved to Australia, so the stuff I had in that little apartment, I had got rid of that stuff. And about the week before I left for Australia, I had, I’d F I terminated my lease. It was only a six month lease and I still have like a week left before I flew out.

So buddy of mine let me crash at his place. So I have all my possessions in the world are stuffed into this guy’s apartment and I’m like selling off or giving away whatever I can. I also had a bin of like the random computer parts. And I was going to take them to this recycling place for, you know, electronics.

it was closed and this was like my last day or last couple of days in Canada. So what I did instead was I took this, been to work on my last day there, and I just took it to the, like it departments, like the guys that fix all the computers. And I just said, okay guys, here you go. Like, take whatever you want and whatever.

You don’t want. Just. Like they had a huge bin of stuff that they would recycle, right? Like they just did, you know, every month they would ship like a gigantic industrial sized container of stuff. They were recycling and I was just like, throw this in there. And it was the same kind of thing where like, I’d had some of the stuff in that bin for years and years and years and like, I didn’t need it, but just keep this stuff.

Sean: [00:17:51] I bet it felt liberating.

Dan: [00:17:54] It felt amazingly liberating. I mean, I went to the airport and I had two suitcases a carry on and my big, my, my equivalent of your backpack, like a big 70 liter or whatever it is, backpack and

a plane ticket to Australia.

Sean: [00:18:13] One way

Dan: [00:18:14] Yeah. One way. And that was all I had in the world.

Sean: [00:18:18] is it isn’t the one way flight. Just. It’s so cool

Dan: [00:18:23] It blows your mind, right? Cause you’re like, well, but wait, aren’t I coming back?

Sean: [00:18:29] if that’s what we worry about so much. It’s like, but, but, but then what? And the points sometimes kind of just not knowing.

Dan: [00:18:39] And Le, I mean, let’s, let’s have a caveat right here that, you know, we benefit massively from. The financial underpinnings. Like when I moved back to Canada from Australia, I had a lot of money in the savings account. I had a credit card and a good credit rating. And so when I came back and I had to get like my Canadian driver’s license and rent an apartment and stuff like that, it wasn’t hard to do.

Whereas, you know, admittedly this idea of I’ll just throw everything in my life away cause I can always start a whole other thing later. It is much. It is, of course, much easier to do that when you have the resources. I, you know, I, I just, I don’t want to go too far down the down the rabbit hole of the privileged white guys talking about how easy it is to just give everything up and go do whatever you want without putting that out there.

Sean: [00:19:36] But you know, it is a lot more. More doable than you might think. Like I kind of, I didn’t really get to travel much. So, you know, maybe people have different experiences, but because travel was so infrequent, it was limited to like a handful of vacations. And you know, when you’re on vacation, it’s like, Oh, stay at a nice place and you go out to restaurants and you.

Maybe you buy a ticket to a show or, or go to the zoo or, or, you know, go to a theme park. You like, you do fun things and you get, you get drinks and you go to a rooftop bar and you ride on a boat. And I’m like, you know, people do different things on vacations and you kind of just extrapolate that. To any kind of traveling.

So if, if you even imagine what, what it would would be like to just travel nomadically you, you kind of apply that experience. If you’re like me, where you’re traveling was somewhat limited. And what we’ve done is basically do the same thing we do at home. We get groceries, we cook in this. Maybe this will blow your mind damn.

Since we’ve moved out over a month ago, we’ve paid for three meals out.

Three. Yes. This is including like, like some people do like meal delivery services, you know, have something ordered or they like pick something up or sit at a restaurant or get a sandwich or whatever. I mean, everything. Three meal and we’ve paid for out.

The rest have been. We’ve made it ourselves, or packed a sandwich or whatever. Right. in, in a few cases, people have bought meals for us, which is really nice. but it’s, it’s amazing. You know, like when we landed in California to like the first stop San Diego, we’re, we’re in Portland right now, by the way.

It’s a very, very end of February. Well, almost, there’s an extra day now. There’s a leap year.

Yeah. But when we got to San Diego, my first thought was, Oh, well, well we’re at the airport, so take an Uber to our Airbnb. Cause that’s what I would always do if I was traveling. It might be to speak at a conference or something.

You land, you don’t have a car unless you’re renting a car, which usually you don’t need to. You take an Uber, that’s what you do. And Lacy’s talking about catching the bus. And I’m like, Oh, right. The bus, there’s this, this means of transportation that is very affordable and accessible a little bit slower.

But in our case, all we have is time. So we get on this bus and the, the, the thing that accepts your bills wasn’t even working. And so the guy just waved us on. And then we ended up spending like, Oh, we put, it was like $2 and 50 cents so we put 50 cents in and the bills weren’t working, and so he just waved us on.

So we got a bus ride for 50 cents. But I mean, like I just took what we’re paying in rent for our house and divided it up into 30 and said, okay, this is our goal. Like whenever we stay somewhere, let’s try and stay long enough that we can get like a. Discounted rate and try and hit that daily amount that added up to our previous rent.

So like our lifestyle, aside from like minimizing and selling things and living out of a backpack, like our expenses and stuff has remained the same and it’s, it’s actually really doable. Okay, so let’s come. Let’s come back to your, your original comment in the newsletter you forwarded about digital nomad, like all I need is like a little bit of savings and a laptop and I could actually do this, but like, you don’t even need that.

You sell your chair that you just bought that hasn’t arrived.

Dan: [00:23:42] I wonder if I can still cancel the order.

Sean: [00:23:44] You, you sell the iMac. You said you sell everything else, you get a laptop. So you just kind of replace it and then you just, you just go

Dan: [00:24:00] Yeah.

Sean: [00:24:01] pay the fee for getting out of your lease early. Or you know, do it in six months when, when it’s up for renewal or whatever. But like, and I’m talking to you Dan, but I’m also talking to anyone who wants to do this. We’ve been doing meetups like. Sometimes, Seattle’s coming up Seattle meetup and then Vancouver, that’s going to be our sixth and seventh meetup, which is crazy.

We’ve just been doing all these meetups and I’m talking to people and multiple times, Dan, it’s, it seems like I’m just the guy going around telling everyone to quit their job and travel the world. But like we’re talking about people who have six months of savings and. Like they’re, they’re not happy with what they’re doing.

They want to travel. And they told themselves they, they would quit a long time ago and they still haven’t. And like, they just need someone to give them permission. And I, I don’t, I don’t know if anyone has or will actually take action on some of the conversations we’ve had. But there’s a lot of people in similar situations, Stan, who just, they just want to like go experience the world.

And. I think that you should do it.

Dan: [00:25:16] Eh? You know, it hadn’t even really occurred to me cause I’ve thought about the last year or two as being kind of getting back on my, get like getting more into a stable state. But. You know, another way of looking at it is now I have, I have a job for the foreseeable future that I can use to pay my bills.

So there’s this question of like, do I need a place to live? Mmm. I’ve been thinking about getting a dog, but I haven’t done it yet. And I’ve. You know, when I, I’m a little all over the place here, but like when I split up and the opportunity to move to Australia for work came up, I thought, well, now’s the time to take advantage of this because I’m single again, I don’t have anybody else.

I, you know, I, no one else’s concerns. I have no one else’s concerns to think about. it’s very hard to. Immigrate to Australia. If you don’t have like a job that’s already gone to sponsor you, well I have a job that’s going to sponsor me and they’ll just take care of all the, you know, all the administrative stuff.

So just do this. Right. And when I was there, I decided I didn’t want to stay there. And so I came back. But the, in terms of the travel, what do you think about. one factor that occurs to me is like, you’re, you’re not working technically. And even if you worry, you’re a business owner. So maybe it’s different, but like you’re traveling around the States while you’re a citizen of the United States, and you can work legally in the United States.

I wonder how it works. Like for me, if I wanted to go traveling around and do my job.

If I, how easily I can do my job if I like go to another country. And I mean heck, Canada’s big enough. I could just travel around Canada.

Sean: [00:27:21] Also true.

Dan: [00:27:22] Well, and, and honestly, like I meet, I’m sure Americans, I’m sure everybody’s like this too, but you know what?

No, I get the impression that’ll knock off a lot of Australians when they’re young. Like go to other countries, they go travel. It just seems to be an institutional thing. And like out here in the, on the West coast with the mountains, it’s a running joke that basically every single person that has a job on any of the ski resorts in the on in the mountains near Vancouver, they’re all Australian.

Like all of them. Every single person you deal with. There is an Australian who came over here to work and just like, you know, travel around. It seems to be institutionalized in their culture, but I wonder how many Australians travel in Australia and similarly in Canada, like Canadians are notorious for not knowing anything about their own country because the country is huge.

It’s very expensive to travel around. So if you grow up in Manitoba or British Columbia or Alberta. For the same money. Why wouldn’t you go to like Europe instead of traveling around Canada?

Sean: [00:28:32] Yeah. So there, there’s a, there’s a couple things in there. Like definitely there’s the. The, the desire to go somewhere new, like say you live in the United States, like, Oh, I want to go to Europe, you know, I want to go to Asia. Makes sense. and, and certainly you should. And it’s, it’s cool to like see different cultures, how different people live, but also there’s a lot within your own country.

You don’t have to go abroad to explore or have new experiences in heck like. A lot of these cities that we’re visiting, they are so different. When you just move around a few blocks or a few miles, like you can have a completely different experience. especially in a lot of bigger cities too. It’s just, it’s so different.

the, the other thing you were talking about earlier on, Oh, it’s escaping me now. But before, before we started talking about like different countries, you had said something,

Dan: [00:29:36] it was before I brought up the thing about trying to work in different countries where

Sean: [00:29:40] Oh, that’s what it was. The newsletter that you forwarded, the guy was talking about, and I thought this was a really good, like staying in places longer. Just because you’re a nomad doesn’t mean you have to travel constantly, which I thought was really good because, yeah, we’re on a sabbatical right now, so I don’t have to work.

Sometimes I want to work on stuff and write and make videos or podcasts like because that’s something I want to do, but I don’t necessarily have to write. And if you have a job, well, you do have to get some things done sometimes. And it would be exhausting if you were in a new place every single week.

But the good news is it’s not just two extremes where you have to be constantly on the road worrying about like, where am I going to stay tomorrow night or next week? Or stuck in one place for the rest of your life. You can live in a place for a month. You can live in a place for three months. And then the neat thing is if you think you want to live there three months and you say, Oh, I’ll be here for the next few months, but then a month in you’re like, you know what?

I think I’m ready to move on. You can do that, right? But kind of like doing something in the middle where you’re not so worried about the next place that you can’t even focus and do your work. you know, just allow, allow yourself to settle in a little bit, kind of find a rhythm, like understand the city, get your work done and then check out another place cause you can’t, you have that freedom.

Dan: [00:31:11] You know, it’s, it’s funny you’re talking about this and so on, thinking about what it’s like, and I have to admit, I, I’m sure that, you know, this is going to be different for different people, but I definitely have competing drives. Like I understand if there’s a person who’s like, God, I wish I could just travel, but I’m stuck in my situation.

And you know what you want to say to them is maybe you’re not as stuck in your situation as you think. For me, to be honest, I have a powerful, like, I dunno what you call it, like a desire to have a home. Like I love having my own space with my desk and this weird. Print so that I have on the wall above my desk and like sitting here and like, I’m really excited to get a better chair and I’m excited to get like a better home gym, which I also ordered.

Like there, there are things there. There’s definitely a part of me that likes this idea of, you know, be Holden, you know, be beholden to nothing. You can just get, you could just get rid of everything you own and break your lease and go, you know, pick up a new Mac book first, I guess. so I can keep doing my job, but there is also a part of me that like wants a home a great deal.

Sean: [00:32:24] So to that, I would say I feel exactly that . Same as you, so

Dan: [00:32:30] Yeah. It doesn’t surprise me to hear you say that

Sean: [00:32:33] it’s not like, Oh, all I want to do is like leave my, I mean, I had an awesome studio, Dan.

Dan: [00:32:41] you, you did. Yeah. It made me jealous every day.

Sean: [00:32:44] I had a beanbag. It was great. I had a lot of monitors. It was awesome. I I, I’m really productive there and I enjoy my work. Truthfully. The last thing I wanted to do. Was not work like as as admittedly as a workaholic, you know, I’ve, I’ve felt tied to my work, like my identity was wrapped up in my work and I loved doing it.

And so the scariest thing for me was just not doing that. Like how about remove yourself from all of those work obligations, even the things you think you want to do for a whole year. That was really scary for me. And so I did it specifically because it was scary. Like, yes, I, I did want to travel. That’s something I’ve always wanted to do and I didn’t get a chance to do much of that growing up.

But still, like, I like the idea of, you know, you say home, I say studio cause I don’t actually really care about like the home. It’s more about my, like I live in my studio space, you know, like, and I want somewhere that I can tell Siri to turn on the lights and the cameras and just walk in and record. And like, I like my four displays.

I like my beanbag, but here’s what I was going to say. So all that to say that I relate to you in what you’re feeling, but if there’s a part of you that wants to travel, and there was for me. Then I think you should do it. Do it until you’ve done it, and then you’re like, that was a good experience and now I’m ready to settle down.

I’m ready for the next chapter. But if there’s part of you that wants to do it, go do it. Don’t not do it just because there’s also a part of you that’s happy to settle down. If it’s like, if there is any part of you that wants to travel, do it now and then settle down after.

Dan: [00:34:48] That’s a good point. I’m trying to think of how the equation works. Like you can, it works in one direction, but not the other. Like if you settled down, then you won’t travel. But if you travel, you can always settle down.

You know? and, and again, there’s the, there is the thing about it not getting easier.

I mean, you know, I don’t, I don’t truck much with regret, but to the extent that I ever think if I could jump back in time and talk to my 23 year old self who had just graduated from university, I’d say,

don’t worry, don’t be so worried about getting a job. Just like, go, go do some stuff. Like go screw up.

Sean: [00:35:25] Isn’t it crazy? The amount of pressure 20 somethings feel to like have it all figured out.

Dan: [00:35:31] I, it’s, it’s like, it’s like our society, I don’t know if it’s a society or culture or what the heck, but it’s like someone is playing a very cruel trick on these poor people because I, I hear young people. So stressed about everything. And you know, we hear jokes all the time about how it’s a generational thing.

Like Mullah. I mean millennials is getting a little ridiculous, cause we’re like 40 now, but like gen Z  to be Canadian, gen Zed is like supposedly, Oh they’re, they’re so cynical. And they think the world is ending. And part of me is like, I think it’s just cause they’re like 20. Cause honestly, when I was in my mid twenties I was a basket case also.

And I think it comes from the cognitive dissonance of thinking and being told by society that you are now on adults. But in fact, I had an awful lot more growing up to do when I was 25 and that was a constant source of like feeling. You know like how a kid will sometimes put on their parents’ shoes and try to like shuffle around in them and it looks ridiculous cause they’re like 90 sizes too big for their feet.

It was a, it was a version of that where like

Sean: [00:36:41] Your hands go to the elbows of the sports coat,

Dan: [00:36:43] exactly like I had moved out of. My parents’ house and I had my own apartment and I leased a car and I had a job and I was ostensibly an adult, but like in in my brain, I was still very much like, like a half teenager, just like.

Sean: [00:37:01] What people don’t realize what younger people don’t realize is. When you’re older, you’re going to feel the same way you do right now in your head. Your body’s just going to look different in the mirror. You don’t like become an old person. You’re still you and you still have desires and you still like the things that you like and it’s, it’s like they just think there’s this arbitrary line.

Maybe it’s 30 years old, maybe it’s 40 maybe it’s 50 we’re like, then you’re old. But you’re, you’re going to feel like you in your head. It’s just, you’re going to see a different picture in the mirror.

Dan: [00:37:43] Yeah. There’s a continuity. But you will, you won’t. You’ll be different though. Like this is the thing I’m thinking where I see people who are like 25 26 27 and freaking out about stuff. like so-called adulting, like adulting is, is a word that is not used by adults. It’s used by people who feel like they should be adults, but aren’t really.

Yeah. And that isn’t a criticism. That’s more of just like, I remember feeling that way, but I don’t feel that way anymore, even though I am still. Me like your personality changes, but it changes as a result of your experiences, not because of your age. Like it’s, it’s like correlation without causation.

Where I think when you’re young, you think that just because a person is 35 or 55 or 75 that they, they turn into a different person, but the 75 ish illness is not what makes them that way. You know, like  how they live their life is what turns them into the

Sean: [00:38:46] And the similarities between one 75 year old and another is just tied to the probability that one would experience a certain set of, you know, incidents in their life that are similar.

Dan: [00:39:03] Yeah. I mean, you get, you get people in their sixties that don’t seem to have learned any lessons. You know, w like do respect, like you get people in their sixties that invite the same sort of drama into their life that is typical of the average 20 year old. And yet you get other people in their forties that are all, that have already reached the point where they’re like, I don’t care about any of this anymore.

So like it has way less to do with age and way more to do with your experiences and how you process them. But to take it back to the whole thing about travel and taking opportunities when you’re 23 and you’re like, I got to get, the most important thing I can do is get my life figured out. Like I wish it were easier to understand that there are almost no consequences to doing anything that you want within obvious boundaries of like personal safety and, you know, harm.

Right. And when your, the older you get, depending what you invite into your life, it doesn’t get easier. So like I, when I was married and had a mortgage, it was an awful lot harder to decide to go travel. Now I’m, I’m older, I’m 37 years old, but I’m single and I don’t have a mortgage and I have a remote job.

It actually, if I wanted to travel, it wouldn’t be that hard to do.

Sean: [00:40:18] Well, let, let’s, let’s be, let’s be totally fair though. It, it wouldn’t just be. Not hard to do. Like, and, and you’re also, you’re not just like older, I mean, yes, you’re technically older, but like objectively you’re young. And I would say it’s not just not hard. It’s easy. It’s like you, you’re in the ideal place to do this.


Dan: [00:40:41] Noted, let, let me fit. Let me finish the thing. Cause here’s, here’s where I’m going with this. So now I’m. When I say older, I mean compared to before. Because if you look at your life as being like, it only gets harder and harder and harder and harder to travel. That isn’t necessarily true as demonstrated by what I’m saying.

Like there’s a point where I was younger where it would’ve been harder to be a digital nomad. Now it’s easy, but it’s also possible that like three years from now, maybe I meet someone and decide to get married and have a kid. Well, okay, now it’s suddenly harder. No, again, not impossible. You can go be a digital nomad with a, with a partner and a kid, but like  now that I fit, now I’m thinking about it as a graph.

If you graph like difficulty over time, I’ve arrived back at like a trough in the graph where it would be particularly easy to do, and that’s never really occurred to me before.

Sean: [00:41:35] And it may even be the best, most ideal time,

like for the rest of your life. Like it won’t ever get more ideal, possibly.

Dan: [00:41:45] Yeah, it could be. It’s too bad. I just ordered the home gym and the air on chair.

Sean: [00:41:49] Well, you know, these are, these are reversible things.

Dan: [00:41:54] Yeah. And solvable problems and worst case scenario. There’s also stuff that I could, if I really, really, really wanted to keep it. There are storage lockers.

Sean: [00:42:03] That’s true, and I’m glad we don’t even have to waste the time on that because with some people it’s like, but no, Sean, I have a lease and at least you’re, you understand you could break the lease and pay the fee or whatever.

Dan: [00:42:14] Well, I, I did that in Australia because I, when I quit my job in Australia, my visa to remain in the country was contingent on that job. So when under those circumstances I had, I think not, I had 60 or 90 days, I can’t even remember now. So, but my, my lease wasn’t up for several more months, so I said to my landlord, look, I’m leaving the country period, so what’s the deal?

And he said, well, you have to pay a month’s rent if you break your lease. And I was like, here you go. And that was it.

Sean: [00:42:47] Oh, is it ever, everyone thinks it’s like, no, no, you can’t. And no, I, I have a car, I have a, I have a lease, I have a rent payment, I have a mortgage. These are unsolvable problems. I think all of those things are just, they’re just excuses that keep you from facing the real reason. You don’t want to go.

Dan: [00:43:12] Yeah.

Sean: [00:43:13] They’re, they’re just more socially acceptable reasons because no one out there except Sean, if I, you come to a meetup and talk to me like, I’m going to hold your feet to the fire. I’m not going to like, I’m not going to waste any time. We’ve got a few hours together. I’m not going to waste time. I’m just going to give it to you straight.

I’m going to be like, Nope, I’m not gonna like, I actually believe in you more than you believe in yourself when we talk together. So like. Other people in your life, your friends and your family, they’re not going to like say, Oh, well you could, you could, you know, just break the lease. Like they’re not going to say that.

They’re not going to say, well, you know, you could just sell the car. They’re not going to say that, but I’ll say that because you can. You’re, you’re just hiding behind all of these other things because it seems reasonable and you know that none of the people in your life are going to call you on the BS.

Right? But really they’re just socially acceptable reasons for you not to do what you want to do because there’s a deeper reason that you’re hiding from. And if you were to, if you were to dig deep and find that reason and, and say it, like give a name to it and actually face it, you’d realize. This is kind of a silly reason.

There’s really nothing holding me back except myself.

Dan: [00:44:34] I like to remind myself sometimes, like when I get too hung up on if anything in my life goes wrong, I’ll never recover from of just this idea that like. You, you can do whatever you want. Like we, we spend so much of our lives, not just thinking, I won’t do, I, you know, I’m not gonna do this, but thinking that we actually can’t do it.


Sean: [00:44:57] You ever play a video game with like the like. And it’s like geo-fence where there’s this invisible wall. You

Dan: [00:45:03] yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, and sometimes they, they render, sometimes they’ll even render landscape on those open world games. You can see that there’s mountains over there, but the game carefully prevents you from.

Sean: [00:45:14] You just walk forward and bump into this invisible glass. Truman show wall like, Nope, you can’t go any further. But actually life is just kind of like a true open world video game. You, you can actually do whatever you want. You can go wherever you want.

Dan: [00:45:29] You can. Yes. And so I was reminded of something when you were talking as a poet named Charles Bukowski, and one of the reasons I thought of him was that his life was  a lot worse than ours in lots of ways. And a lot of the time by choice. I think to the best of my understanding, among other things, he was one of these artists who decided that he would like take a Oh like a bad job that he didn’t really like and just focus all his emotional energy on his art.

And he’s also one of these people who I think was not net, didn’t really get that much fame during his lifetime. Like now he’s considered, like one of the canonical American poets, but he wrote a poem that. Averse from, which jumped into my head when, when we were talking about this, and it goes, there are worse things than being alone, but it often takes decades to realize this.

And most often when you do, it’s too late. And there’s nothing worse than too late.

And I think about that a lot because you can replace being alone with. You know, being uncertain are the other things we’re talking about where it’s like we, a lot of the time, I mean, I’m, I’m an anxious person. Uncertainty makes me very uncomfortable, but there are, there are worse things than being uncertain.

And one of the worst things is too late, right? Like one of the worst things is being like 60 or 70 or 80 or 90 or a hundred and realizing. Actually you had the chance to do that thing, but you talked yourself out of it.

Sean: [00:47:05] On the note of being uncomfortable. I was just thinking about this earlier today. I wonder what the correlation between one’s one’s ability to be uncomfortable or get uncomfortable and success, and I suspect that it’s high.

Dan: [00:47:28] I think so for. Popular definitions of success?

Sean: [00:47:33] Yeah. Obviously subjective, but I think even if you fill in that variable with your own definition.

Dan: [00:47:40] Well, because there are so many versions of discomfort that we avoid so hard. I mean, I’ve been. This has been on my mind a lot because I’ve been doing it lately. I’ve been dating, you know, and the thing that I’ve, that I’ve slowly been getting better at when you’re dating and, you know, part of me feels ridiculous admitting it, but here it goes.

When you’re dating, especially as a man dating women, like a typical heterosexual relationship, like at some point you got to try to kiss the other person and there’s a certain amount of risk associated with that. Right? You’re, you’re going to like put yourself out there emotionally and hope that they don’t reject you.

All the good things that you want out of a relationship. Require you to do that. If you never do the uncomfortable thing, you never get all the good stuff. And you know, dating and kissing aside the same thing. It’s true for jobs. People are always saying like, Oh, I, I, I’m, I’m afraid to negotiate. And then it’s like, well, that’s why you don’t get good jobs.

And that’s why when you get a good job, you don’t get paid enough money.

Sean: [00:48:43] And that the vast majority of things that are good for us involve some level of discomfort.

Dan: [00:48:50] Yeah. I mean, you make the analogy back to exercise where like if you, if you pursue physical comfort above all else, you will end up being unhealthy and miserable.

Sean: [00:48:59] And I like the exercise example because you know, using things like. Runner’s high or whatever. Even lifting weights like you, you get to the point where there’s endorphins and it’s,

it’s technically uncomfortable, but it actually feels good, and I think once you’re comfortable being uncomfortable, then you’re, then you’re just unstoppable.

That’s why I think success is all but inevitable.

Dan: [00:49:30] I agree. And I mean, the way to get there is to practice things that, that are uncomfortable. So I mean, you know, the dating example, the way you practice that is you, you ask a lot more people out and you just a lot more people. And the working out example is, I mean, I, last year I was lifting a lot more often.

I got to the point where I could dead lift my body weight and you come out of that set. Feeling like you can hardly stand up, but you also feel like the King of the universe, you know, like she feels so good and and sure enough, you know, you, you eat and you rest and you exercise properly a few weeks or months down the line from doing that on a regular basis, you are a lot stronger and more resilient in general.

So the, the practice of the discomfort ends up having all of these positive. Things unlike a lot of people, a lot of people get anxious about just meeting other human beings, but like the more you go out and meet other human beings, the more of these magical opportunities that we are sometimes envious of other people for getting they, they happen to you.

You know? There’s that idea that like it, like it’s good, it’s good to be lucky, and everyone benefits from a certain amount of luck. However. You know, a lot of people, it’s strange that the people who seem to get the luckiest, like do more of this stuff, like they put themselves in the position to be lucky.

You know, since I said the rest of Canada, I think that’s what I would do. Like, there are places in Canada that I have. There are places in Canada. I’ve never been. There are places in Canada I have rarely been or haven’t been for a long time. There are places in Canada where I have friends that I haven’t seen in a long time, and I, so that’s what I think I’d say, especially if I think of being a digital nomad.

I don’t have to so many problems that are, that are not insoluble problems, but so many problems go away when I stay in the country where I’m a citizen. Like they just don’t even come up. Like I can work from anywhere. I can get insurance anywhere. I can rent a place anywhere with like no questions. I’m not saying I couldn’t do that in South America, but as long as I want to travel, if I want to travel in Canada, there are even fewer things standing in my way.

Sean: [00:51:57] True. Like the U S Australia and New Zealand are a little tricky. Even even Europe can be tricky, where like you can stay a certain number of days and then you need to make sure to. Leave for a certain number of days and come back. But like, it’s not, it’s not impossible. Like you might have to be a little bit strategic and, you know, make sure you plan your, your travel accordingly, but for the most part, you could pretty easily stay in a place for a few months, go to another place for a few months, come back around, you know, it’s not too bad,

Dan: [00:52:33] This is true.

Sean: [00:52:36] but Canada, that’s a, that’s a good start.

Dan: [00:52:40] I mean, there’s a lot of cool stuff in Canada and there might even be other cities in Canada aside from the two in which I have ever lived, where I might want to decide. I want to stick around. Who knows? Montreal appeals to me.

Sean: [00:52:52] The Herman Miller air on that, that chair. It’s golden handcuffs man.

Dan: [00:52:58] Oh God.

Sean: [00:53:00] I mean, cause if you got a Herman Miller air chair at

Dan: [00:53:03] Then I’m really not

Sean: [00:53:04] can’t, you can’t go anywhere. What do you, what are you going to do? What are you going to do with that chair? Right? I mean, you might as well stay home and sit in it and it feels really good.

Dan: [00:53:14] I ordered it and it’s going to take a few weeks to get here, and it’s delivered fully assembled in a box that weighs 55 pounds according to the . A email I got.

Sean: [00:53:23] That’s going to be gorgeous.

Dan: [00:53:25] And what I’m starting to think is that I’m not even going to unpack it. I’m just going to rent a storage unit and put the chair in the box in it

Sean: [00:53:33] I’m on my income.

Dan: [00:53:35] someday I will unearth this and sit in it.

But that day is not, not this day.

Sean: [00:53:39] Real talk, say you didn’t get the chair or the gym,

Dan: [00:53:44] Yeah.

Sean: [00:53:45] would you, if you wanted to travel for some months, would you need to put things in storage or could you like, I don’t know how many things you own, but like could you just get rid of stuff.

Dan: [00:53:58] Really the things I would put in storage. There’s two tiers. One of them are tiers of things that sort of have a.

And then I can, you actually have two tiers. I can go even deeper. The first tier is stuff that has some kind of emotional attack that I have an emotional attachment to. Like I still have my university degree and, I want to keep it, I don’t want to get rid of it.

But having said all that, I, like I said, I moved to Australia. There’s, there’s stuff I didn’t take with me. So there’s stuff that I just left with a friend of mine.

So like this, these are possibilities. You can, you know, leave stuff with friends if it’s not, you know, if they’re willing. And if it’s not too a, doesn’t put them out too much.

Sean: [00:54:38] Or if, if it’s not much more than that, obviously if it’s bigger and heavier, you know it’s a different story, but say it was only the, the, the diploma, you can mail that to your family or

Dan: [00:54:49] Yeah, I know. Exactly. I could mail it to my parents or, 

Sean: [00:54:52] you must burn it with fire, Dan. That’s the only option.

Dan: [00:54:54] well, you know, the other, and the other thing I could do is. Aye have. I’ve driven halfway across the country before I drove from Winnipeg to Vancouver when we moved here and we had a car full of belongings and I drove back at one point and I to sell my car to my parents.

So like I drove my car from Vancouver back to Winnipeg and left it there. So again, like if I wanted to take some stuff and leave it at my parents’ house, I could potentially do that. that’s a pretty cool road trip. Actually.  but like I said, there are tiers. The other thing I was thinking about, there’s some of this stuff, you’ve got to think deeper because I’m, again, I have this print above my desk and I like it a lot and I’m like, Oh, I’d want to keep that.

But then I thought about it. Wait, I bought that print off the internet. It’s not an original. If I really like it that much, I could potentially just buy another copy of it in the future. You know, there’s, there are things like that where it’s so easy to think I’m attached to this stuff. You know, I have a really nice couch.

I kind of want to keep it, except like if I really want a coach that bad, I can get a coach years from now and.

Sean: [00:56:02] Yeah, you could sell it for 70% of what you paid for it, but, and you might think, Oh, well that’s a loss. Well, first of all, a factor in the amount of value you’ve gotten over X years of using it and then factor in the value of the freedom you have in being able to travel for X number of months or years.

And then being able to just buy a couch again. It’s, it’s like that, that video that I shared in the community, the secrets to financial success where he talks about how renting is freedom and freedom is an asset.

Dan: [00:56:39] Right? Yeah. I mean, I’ve, I think my, my, attitude towards money has improved over time. The way I try to think is that you can always make more money. to be honest, that was part of what I told myself when I ordered these things. I’m, I was going to save up the money for this chair. And finally I was like, you know what?

I want the damn chair. So I ordered it, I put it on credit, and then I thought, okay, well now you better make this money so you can pay for it. But like I have ways that I could make money. I might not have been executing on them for the last. While, but like they’re there and like selling my stuff. I procrastinate on selling my stuff because it feels like a pain in the butt, but like I could do it and then just sell the stuff.

Sean: [00:57:29] So real talk, Dan, are you going to do it?

Dan: [00:57:32] No, I keep saying real talk. It’s brutal.

Sean: [00:57:36] Cause I know, I know you and I, we can philosophize forever.

Dan: [00:57:42] yeah, we can  well. Aye. Let’s, I’m, I’m at least saying that I’m going from not even thinking about it, to thinking about it, because like a couple of days ago, I wasn’t sitting here going, I’d love to travel, but so like,

so I feel, I feel like now I at least want to think about it, which is

Sean: [00:58:05] And at the very least, you know that you could.

Dan: [00:58:09] Yes, this is true. I feel, and.

Sean: [00:58:12] and you, you’re coming to the both the Seattle and Vancouver meetups, so we’re going to get the hang out,

Dan: [00:58:19] This is true.

Sean: [00:58:22] tighten the screws a little

Dan: [00:58:23] I was going to, yeah, that’s what I was going to say. So I expect to be worked over even more thoroughly than we did already.

Sean: [00:58:29] Yeah, and then, then we’ll see each other at Crafton commerce in Boise.

Dan: [00:58:33] Yeah,

Sean: [00:58:33] I mean that by then, hopefully you, you show up in your

Dan: [00:58:37] yeah, I’ll live in Boise.

I mean, it seems like a pretty cool town from the like two square blocks of it I saw last year.

Sean: [00:58:47] That is the town. I’m pretty sure

Dan: [00:58:50] Yeah, I know.

I am really, I’m excited about these meetups. Got to buy my train ticket down to Seattle.

Sean: [00:59:00] it’s going to be fun. The Seattle one is definitely going to be good.

Dan: [00:59:03] Yes. The Vancouver one remains to be seen.

Sean: [00:59:07] Yeah. We don’t, we don’t know.

Could just be us.

Dan: [00:59:11] It might just be us.

Sean: [00:59:13] all right too though.

Dan: [00:59:14] now there’s like you’ve, you’ve gotten some, some, I’ve seen some activity on Instagram from people who live here that know about you. So there’s gotta be a few of

Sean: [00:59:22] I’ve heard for, I’ve heard from a few people there. but even if it was just us, I think that would be fun. Cause this is kind of crazy. But have we only met in person once.

Dan: [00:59:32] Yes.

Sean: [00:59:33] Yeah. That’s too weird. It’ll be fun to hang out.

Dan: [00:59:35] No, it will. Well, this is what I mean, you’re going to be in Vancouver for more than one day probably. So I’m hoping that, hoping that we got some time to hang out. I’ll show you around, but that’ll, That’ll come in a few weeks. And I, I liked, I was, you know, so I was talking to you about this yesterday, briefly, and I’d said like, so what are you planning to do when you’re here?

And you’re like, I don’t know nothing. And I was like, Oh yeah, that’s kind of the idea, isn’t it?

You just kind of show up somewhere and then,

Sean: [01:00:02] it’s weird. There’s literally nothing. And then whenever we show up places, everyone thinks, you know, they treat it like you’re on vacation. And it’s like, Oh, you know, here’s all these restaurants. And it’s like. Again, three places we’ve paid for food out of the house, or like, you know, expensive events and stuff.

And mostly we’re just kind of living like locals and walking around and it’s, it’s fine. So we’ll probably do a lot of that.

Dan: [01:00:34] Sweet. I did a lot of that when I was in.

Sean: [01:00:37] Even coffee, Dan, like something, something we used to do at home, like we did make coffee at home, but we made a habit of going out to coffee shops at least once or twice a week. Now we don’t even, we typically don’t even do that sometimes if we have a meetup at a coffee shop, we’ll pay for coffee there, but that’s the only thing that like I kind of miss.

We could probably

Dan: [01:01:01] could, you could still do it. I’ve been, I’ve been doing it a lot and.

Sean: [01:01:06] If you did it every day, it’s like thousands of dollars a

Dan: [01:01:08] No, it’s not though. That’s the thing. It’s like a few hundred dollars a month.

Sean: [01:01:13] if you have black coffee, maybe, but

Dan: [01:01:16] I order lattes and they’re not cheap and it’s still only a few hundred dollars a month.

Sean: [01:01:21] I guess that’d be one 50 or so. One 50 times 12 under 2000.

Dan: [01:01:30] A month is about 30 days long.

Sean: [01:01:33] We’re not going to do this, Dan. It’s time for my dinner. This was a great conversation.

Dan: [01:01:37] Yeah. It was, well, I guess it’s time for my dinner too, cause we’re in the same time zone.

Sean: [01:01:41] It’s, it’s weird. It’s too weird.

Dan: [01:01:45] it’s going to get even weirder, Sean, because you’re, you’re only getting your, you’re drawing closer. It’s

Sean: [01:01:51] Closer and closer.

Dan: [01:01:54] Into the, into the terrifying. I of the Pacific Northwest.

Sean: [01:01:58] Okay. I think we’re done.