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There’s nothing worse than launching to crickets.

That’s what we call it when you pour time and effort into designing and building a great product—a piece of art, an online course, a great app—you work on it for weeks, or months… or years.

You actually finish the product.

You put this amazing thing you made out in the world…

And no one wants it.

In response to all your hard work, you get… nothing.

Just the sound of crickets chirping. You know, figuratively (or maybe literally, depending on where you live!)

That’s just the worst: making something that you love, and then finding out nobody else is interested.

Was all that time wasted? Is there any way to salvage this product? Maybe if you used different launch strategies…

We never want you to end up asking those questions. When you make a product you want people to buy, there’s a simple rule: you have to make something people WANT to buy.

It’s not enough to make something you want. It’s not enough to make something you think other people want… you need to make something they actually want.

You need to find out if people want your product long before you make it. You need to validate your big idea before you give it your blood, sweat, and tears.

How do you do that? We’re going to tell you today.

Links and Resources Mentioned
Episode Transcript

Note: This transcript of the episode was machine-generated and has not been edited for correctness. It’s provided for your convenience when searching. Please excuse any errors.

Dan: [00:00:00] The focus really is, can I find one person will pay me for this? Because if not, your idea is just a fantasy. It’s not a business.

I imported some harsh Sean.

Ben: [00:00:31] Good morning, Dan,

Dan: [00:00:33] Good morning, Ben.

Ben: [00:00:35] how are you feeling today?

Dan: [00:00:38] I’m feeling really good. How are you feeling.

Ben: [00:00:40] I’m feeling great, feeling great. You know, I had my coffee this morning and like, I’ll explain this to you because this is the time to do it right? Not in the pre show before everybody’s listening like, this

Dan: [00:00:55] No. Now that now that people are excited about the topic, they’re just ready. They’re ready to hear us. Dive into validating your big idea and now’s the time to talk about how you make coffee.

Ben: [00:01:05] Anyways, getting into the topic, what are we talking about today? Dan?

Dan: [00:01:11] Today, we’re talking about validating your big idea. So you know, a lot of people listening to this show want to build a product or they want to offer a service. They want to start a business, and there’s Ben. There’s nothing worse than going all the effort of making a thing, let’s say a product. You put in all the time, all the effort.

You launch it and launching is complicated. Don’t even get me started on launching stuff and then no one buys it. How tragic is that?

Ben: [00:01:47] It’s very tragic, and I’m actually very interested in today’s episode. I mean, I feel like with some regularity, like every three or four months, I guess I get some kind of idea, you know? And. The thing about ideas, you know, like we, we kind of downplay the value of ideas, but I think like having, having big ideas that you get, that you can get excited about, I think that’s important.

But in the absence of really understanding how to connect your idea to an actual audience of people who will trust you enough to.  and you want your idea enough to buy it from you. Like that’s a whole other thing. so like one of the, one of the things I’ve been thinking of is like, my most recent big idea is I would love to see a fitness brand that doesn’t just focus on like short term aesthetic.

Goals and is really more about maintaining mobility and health and fitness in the longterm. Something that I’ve been thinking about a lot, and I want to read this quote from Justin Jackson on Twitter. He says, how do I find customers for my product versus who’s already searching for a product like mine?

And I just love that shift in thinking because, and unless you’ve really practiced that a lot, I think the tendency is, okay, I’ve got this great idea. Now how do I find customers? How do I find people who would be interested in this idea? And the quote that I was looking for from him said something to the effect of, good entrepreneurs.

Build products around people, things that people are already looking for instead of trying to build an audience around a product. And I think there is, I think there is value in building an audience independent of a specific product, but I just, I love that shift in thinking of how can I, how can I get people to rally around my big idea two.

How can I, where can I find something that people are already looking for that I can build a big idea around? Does that make sense?

Dan: [00:04:35] It does. And the, the argument for a starting with an audience is. Key, I think because before you can really know what to build, you have to know who you’re building it for. Like we talk a lot about targeting a niche, you know, finding sort of the smallest group of people that you could serve. And the idea there is the, the more you try to create something that appeals to everybody, the harder your job is.

Right? Because there are fewer and fewer things that appeal to everyone, and it’s harder to get enough attention. It’s harder to, it’s hard to get enough attention when you’re trying to appeal to everybody. When you’re trying to create a very specific thing for a specific group of people, your job is much easier.

But it all starts with finding that group of people. So instead of, instead of this big idea idea. Where are you come up with, Hey, I, I just thought of this great idea for a thing and I want to make it, and then I’m going to have to go find people who will buy it. It’s much better to find the people and let the, let your perception of what the people need, generate those ideas for you.

Ben: [00:05:54] Yeah, absolutely.  I think you know, for some of the points that we’re going to get into in this episode. We’re going to, we’re going to discover how incredibly valuable it can be. Two, already have some kind of audience that you can tap into. If you, if you build a relationship with an audience around, you know, like a specific topic, it’s, you, you already have, much easier access.

To the things that they’re struggling with, to the ways that they would describe their frustrations and struggles and  and too, really just just a more comprehensive set of data to help you figure out what is, what is something that I could make that the people that I’m already connected to would be eager and excited to purchase.

So with this idea that I have, you know, like  and I’m aware of this, like I, I’m so in love with this idea, but I also know that I’m going about it the wrong way. And, and that’s all right. It’s okay. It’s okay for your idea to be a starting point, but that’s really what it is. Like.  and that is, I think that’s also another way to look at this shift in thinking is this idea that I have for a fitness brand that focuses on longevity.

That is not the end. That is the spark that starts me on a journey to discovering what people are really looking for, and I have to be really careful, like the, the more specific that idea is in the beginning. The more careful I have to be that I’m not just looking for things to confirm what I want to make.

And that’s, that’s one of the real dangers because you can, and, and here’s, here’s the worst case scenario. You know, like you spend months or maybe even years developing something that nobody is going to buy

because you didn’t do the proper market research. That’s, that’s the risk. And honestly, most products fail because of that.

So you have to ask yourself, do you, what? Do you want more? Do you want two force your idea into the market or do you want to discover an idea that’s actually going to sell.

Dan: [00:08:45] it depends on if you. Want to run a business, or if you just want to make a thing, because you can of course do whatever you want, but if you actually want to build a business around, let’s say, creating a fitness brand focused on longevity, then you’re going to have to find your customers.

Ben: [00:09:09] Well, and there may be, there may be something there, but yeah. I like what you’re saying because that that idea ultimately may not actually work as a viable business, but it’s still a worthwhile message,


you have to put it into the appropriate vehicles. So if I can’t actually make a product out of that, that would.

Turn into a profitable business, then that doesn’t necessarily mean I have to discard that idea altogether. It just means that I have to decide, okay, what am I willing to do with this message? Because I think it’s so important,

even though I know it’s not necessarily going to make me money.

Dan: [00:10:03] Well, I, I, I wasn’t even intending to go there, but. The, we have this idea that, you know, you’re in, you and Sean have talked about this before, that you have to give people what they need inside of a package of what they want. And we also talk about the idea that people, people don’t really buy products.

They buy a better version of themselves. You know, they buy, they buy a transformation. They buy this vision of the future that they imagine they’ll achieve. So it’s perfectly okay to. Want to have like a movement, like if you want to create a movement in fitness towards longevity instead of short term, short term goals are S aesthetics.

It’s perfectly okay to do that, but you’re going to have to find out what people like, what people actually want, right? It’s, it’s not enough to go to people, Hey, you should care more about longevity then you should care about how you look on the beach this summer. But if what people want is to look good on on the beach this summer, then maybe your products have to be focused around how do you, how do you give people like the outcome that they want in a way that serves, he serves the purpose of, of longevity.

For example,

Ben: [00:11:22] Yeah. So kind of sneak it in there. nah, not,

Dan: [00:11:27] Trojan horse, Trojan horse product development.

Ben: [00:11:30] yeah. And, and I, and I totally get that. So, so that could be one of the possibilities, you know, and really not having done any of. The customer or market research. Yet for this particular idea, I know that there are a lot of possibilities. You know, there could be the possibility that like I will need to focus on shorter term aesthetic stuff if I want to get people to pay attention to it.

And then within that brand I can build a movement around longevity and. I dunno, like I don’t need to clarify this here, but when I, when I talk about longevity, I’m not necessarily talking about living longer, but I’m talking about maintaining fitness and mobility for as long as possible.

Dan: [00:12:22] Well. Okay, so now, now we can get into trying to find out who. Like, who is your audience then? Right? Because there’s all kinds of people that are interested in fitness. There are people who are interested in fitness, who are in their twenties thirties well, let’s just say they’re in different stages of their life.

So it’s possible that a lot of what you’re talking about, maybe it appeals to people who are in a different stage of life. Like a later stage of life. Then then other fitness programs do. Maybe that works for what you want to do. Maybe it doesn’t. Or maybe you’d really like to be selling 20 somethings on the idea of, pursuing fitness in order to maintain their health over the longterm.

But the fact of the matter is most 20 somethings aren’t thinking longterm. They’re thinking about getting fit for right now. So.

Ben: [00:13:15] even 30s and forties like I think. People who are, who are in their forties unless they have some significant health issues related to, you know, lack of exercise, report eating habits or whatever. I think like even then you’re just barely becoming aware. So the, but, but to your point, Mmm. The difficult thing about this is the, the kind of people that.

and see, this is, this is the thing, Garrett in the chat  I think he’s in his twenties, maybe thirties. He seems like, he, he might confirm one way or the other, but he posted it in the chat and he said, I’m thinking about McDonald’s right now. And now I’m thinking about McDonald’s and I, you know, I haven’t eaten McDonald’s in years.

That’s a lie I added a couple of weeks ago, but we’re not going to

Dan: [00:14:14] I legit, I legitimately haven’t eaten McDonald’s in years. So just saying

Ben: [00:14:20] Good for you. They’re a, they’re spicy chicken sandwich though. It’s a, anyways,

Dan: [00:14:26] so. So let’s, let’s talk, talk more about, about finding, finding an audience to validate an idea, right? Like we, so we’re talking a lot about starting with the idea, but can we turn things to. Finding your niche. So Ben, I mean, let’s, let’s say that you know, well, maybe you want to do something with fitness.

You’re passionate about fitness, but setting aside for now that you already have this idea about a fitness brand focused on longevity, how else could you go about finding the people that you want to serve.

Ben: [00:15:03] Yeah. So, so I think honestly, the, the, the problem that I’m focused on solving is mobility and health later in life. Right. so fitness is kind of, it’s kind of secondary in my mind. And so I’m, I’m interested in. Finding out

what people who are in their sixties or seventies, maybe even later. But, but I think like that age range is pretty good.

What they’re experiencing in terms of how their habits have led to certain things. And. So there’s not, there’s not like a community of people out there or, an audience of people out there who are like grouped together around there injuries or health concerns or anything like that. But I know that there are places where I could go to find some of those conversations happening.

I know that, you know, like, I could. I could search for some of the common issues related to, or diet and, injuries related to, Mmm. Not working out, lack of mobility and stuff like that. I could, I could find those things and kind of trace it back to fitness. See, I like, as I’m saying, all of this out loud, it feels, it feels a lot like, Mmm.

Trying really hard. Two,

create an audience out of nothing.

Dan: [00:16:51] Well because you’re, yeah, you’re still, you’re starting from the perspective of your idea. You’re going, I have this idea now. How do I find the people that I can shove into the hole that I’ve dug. For this idea, you know,

Ben: [00:17:04] Yeah. But, but I will say, okay, so this is maybe, yeah, and I think this is kind of the better place to start, so I need to zoom out. And

ultimately the part of the solution is around fitness and proper diet. And so there  is a huge audience for that. And, and so I, I could find. That age group within that one audience, and just use that as a starting point, you know?

So I could say, okay, I’m gonna, I’m just gonna look for conversations that are happening. Mmm. Around fitness with people who are between the ages of like 40 and 60 or 40 and 70 and see what kind of things people are talking about. Are they, are they talking about how they, they tried to go to the gym three times a week and end up injuring themselves and having to take like six weeks off?

Are they talking about having trouble, maintaining a specific diet and kind of doing the yoyo thing with there, with their weight? Are they, are they talking about issues that are starting to come up. health issues that are starting to come up like prediabetes or whatever, because they can’t get their, their food or exercise under control.

And I’m just throwing out just some examples, but like,

Dan: [00:18:47] So then what will you, what will you do. If you, when you find those conversations, like what, what are you going to do with that information?

Ben: [00:18:55] so that is at the very least evidence of. A problem. And so from there, and, and if there’s, if people are talking about their problems, they’re looking for a solution.

Dan: [00:19:14] Maybe,

but okay, go on with that.

Ben: [00:19:18] Well, I guess what I mean is if people are connecting over common problems, I think then they’re looking for a solution because. If I’m talking about something that’s going on with me and I’m looking for advice, like I’m asking questions about it like this, I’m experiencing this, what do I do?

That’s, that’s when, you know, they’re looking for solutions.

And so Ben, Mmm  one of the, one of the ways that you validate a product idea, and this isn’t like, there are different levels of validation. Mmm. And I, I don’t know, like. I almost want to, I almost want to use the term pre validate,

because I really, I really liked the idea that like, the most solid validation you can get is somebody actually paying you money for something.

But there’s, you know, that a way to pre validate is that there is. A solution or products that already exist, trying to address the problems that people, and the struggles that people are talking about and asking about, which in the fitness world, there are tons, you know? Mmm. That’s, that’s a very, very strong industry.

So, I mean, you, you almost. I would say if you can,

if you can build an audience just, just even around, the basic topic of fitness and get people to trust you, you know, build that, know, like trust in the fitness space. I think you’re almost guaranteed to be able to sell something.

Because people, I mean, people do it all the time.

They S they sell solutions that don’t actually work in the long term, that aren’t customized for

every person who’s a part of that group, you know? So I think, I think there’s a lot of opportunity there, but there, I mean, it is a really solid market.

Dan: [00:21:44] Yeah, I, I want to make sure we don’t gloss over you. You said the know, like trust thing and specifically what you’re talking about there is that as people get to know you, as you build an audience by providing value, first people start to know you. Then they get to like you and eventually they start to trust you.

And it’s the point where people trust you that. You know, you’re, you’re gonna be successful, most successful at selling them something. And that’s, that’s not in a cynical way. Like you must manipulate people into trusting you so that they’ll hand over their money. No, it’s like legitimately you are trying to earn the trust because again, you fitness is a good example.

You know, I can hardly turn around in my chair without stumbling over a thousand websites about fitness. don’t ask me what they’re doing all over my apartment. I printed them out. It’s don’t worry about it. But there’s so much information out there that it’s hard. It’s actually hard to know. Kuda trust becoming a trusted source of information is itself incredibly valuable.

And so in fact. And maybe you know, a better place to start than having this idea. I want to make a thing now. How do I get people to buy it? Start with who do I want to serve? How will I earn their trust?

And and among other things all along the way to doing that, you will, you know, and we’ll talk about this some more, but along the way to reaching that point, you will get lots of ideas from that audience about what they would actually buy.

And you know, the other thing too is you, you might find out, you might find out that some things just aren’t, aren’t going to work or that you don’t actually want to do them, or that the audience you thought you wanted to serve, you actually don’t. Because, you know, looking at things like fitness, you know, I sort of, when you said that, you know, people talking about their problems or looking for solutions, I kind of said maybe because frankly a lot of the time people talking about their problems or just talking about their problems.

Cause they want an outlet to talk about their problems. They’re not actually interested in solutions. That’s another, that becomes another part of validating your idea and we’ll, we’ll talk about this some more a little later in the conversation, but yeah, we, we say around here that like the, the only validation is taking payment.

Like you really want to know if your product’s going to sell. You have to sell it to somebody because people will say that they want all kinds of things. That they want to actually purchase that in particular, and I could be wrong about this, I mean, well actually Laura alluded to this. She posted a message in the chat saying that, you know, from her experience around older people talking about health and diets, there’s a huge baggage they carry about dated information that needs to be addressed before they’ll get on board with a new solution or even consider that there is a solution in that it’s worth solving.

And it does occur to me that like. The older, a lot of people gap, the less open they are to the idea of doing anything to solve their problems. So this might not be true, but that could already be something that is a challenge about, for example, trying to sell fitness products to an older audience.

Ben: [00:25:11] Well, and, and to my, to my actual idea, because like, there’s so many different ways that you might try to come at it too to find something worth validating. But I really do want to catch people earlier, you know, like in their thirties and forties when, when there’s still some openness. I mean, there’s. I don’t, I don’t want to make it seem like the older you get, the less open yard to new ideas, but, but, but certain, certainly the, the older you get, the more experience you’ve had, the more you’ve lived with yourself and you, you know more about yourself and whether or not you’re actually going to do something.

I think, at least that’s kind of been my experience. And so, like, I, I worry a lot about. When, when I’m in my later years, how

curious I will still be how open to new ideas I’ll, I will still be, you know, like there, there are some things that I want to figure out how to preserve, but I also know that the earlier you are able to establish these kind of habits.

The, the easier it’s going to be to maintain those habits. You’re out the rest of your life. And there are there problems that people experience in their fifties and sixties as a direct result of habits that they established, bad habits they established in their thirties and forties.

That in, and it’s, it’s one of those things where there’s just a lot of lag between how you lived for a decade and what that does to your health two decades down the road.

And so, so I don’t, I, I do anyways, all of that to say like

the puzzle, the puzzle that I’m trying to solve.  is more about this idea that I have and less about really trying to find a legitimate audience. And so it would be, it would be better for me too.

Hold onto that idea as something that I want for people that if I do any audience building in the fitness space, I will try to build a movement around this idea.

But that may not be where my product is going to come from. The idea may not be where the product come from, comes from, or you know, I might discover that there is a market for it, but I don’t know. Unless I get people to trust me and see that they’re having conversations around those issues, they’re having those concerns about what will my health be like?

And I’m thinking about it, you know, like I feel, I feel like I see more of that. I’m thinking about it for myself. Mmm. And so like, the big problem I’m trying to solve is how do I get, how do I get my habits under control? How do I get the self-discipline to establish these things

so that I’m not into my 50s and 60s.

Having to work really hard to turn things around when it’s almost too late. So anyways, all of that to say. Mmm. It’s so, I mean, you can hear it as we’re talking about, it’s so easy for me to just hold on

to the idea and you really, you have to kind of let go of it. You have to be okay with letting go of it and opening yourself up to the possibility that that may not be the thing right now

and that’s okay.

Dan: [00:29:31] It comes back down to why you want to do this. Because having as a goal that people take better care of themselves is. is laudable. I mean, that’s, that’s excellent. Like we all, we all need that. But on the other hand, if you’re trying to sell a product, you know, just the way you describe it, as soon as soon as the, you know, let’s describe, okay, what, what’s the problem that people have?

Well, when they’re in their fifties and sixties, they’re unhealthy. Okay, great. Do they know they’re unhealthy? Yeah, they do. It makes them miserable every day. Okay, great. Can you sell them a solution to that problem? No, you can’t. Because the solution was to start taking better care of themselves in their thirties Oh, okay.

So let’s go talk to people in their thirties who would need to use the solution? Do they want to buy the solution? Well, you got a difficult job ahead of you because trying to convince people that they need something in 20 years is extremely difficult because we’re. Shortsighted creatures, right? So like we, we talk about it when you want to sell a product to somebody among the, the ways that you do that is you have to agitate the customer’s pain, which when you put it that way, it sounds very negative.

Like you’re punching them in the arm over and over. But really what it means is that you have to remind people of their problems before they will look for solutions. And that that’s why if you, you know, you go and you can read our sales pages and emails and things like that, and you see a lot of language, like even in the blurb for this very episode, it, it says there’s nothing worse than launching to crickets.

That’s what we call it. When you pour time and effort into designing and building a great product, you work on it for weeks or months or years. You actually finish the product. You put this amazing thing you made out in the world. Now the people who are listening to this are imagining themselves doing that.

And no one wants it in response to all your hard work, you get nothing. Just the sound of crickets chirping, you know, figuratively or maybe literally depending on where you live. That’s the worst. Making something that you love and then finding out nobody else is interested. What I’m doing there is agitating pain.

If someone can relate to this idea, especially if they’ve ever tried to launch a product and had it go nowhere, I am reminding them of how bad that is. Because that’s the first step to getting them interested in a solution to that problem. And the less they can relate to the problem, the harder it’s going to be.

And so the problem, the problem that we will have going to a healthy 30 year old and trying to remind them how much it sucks to be 58 and have, you know, type two diabetes and have a hard time getting out of chairs. They might kind of be able to imagine that maybe you can remind them of people that they already know, maybe their parents have health issues, but nonetheless, if they, if they can’t imagine themselves having that problem, it’s going to be hard to sell them the solutions.

So trying to get 30 year olds to take better care of themselves, that they’ll be healthier when they’re 60 is a great. Goal to have, but in terms of building the business of selling people products, as you said, it might be something that you have to sort of leave in the background or for the long term in favor of building your business around problems that people have right now and they want solutions to them.

Ben: [00:33:05] Yeah. And, and if I want that idea to even have a shot at possibly becoming a product, I have to be willing to let it go. And I have to be able to enter this process with an open mind

to the possibility that this may not be the thing that I sell. You know, like you, you have to be able to do that because otherwise, you know, like, like you were saying, when you’re agitating the pain, you’re running the risk of spending a lot of time on something that you end up not selling.

To that end, I think there is something too, and, and this is, this is kind of an idea that I’ve been kicking around, is that

if you. Have done. If you have done some research and you have some inkling that people might be interested in a product, you built an audience, you have trust. Well, one, you can start building something and talking about it, which is, you know, when we talk about a lot, you don’t, people don’t notice announce announcements.

They notice consistency. You let people know from the beginning what you’re thinking about and putting together as a response to some of the problems and frustrations you’ve seen them talk about. And by putting that in front of people consistently, you know, like, some people get worried that, Oh, if I, I talk about this product idea that I have, somebody’s gonna, you know, steal it.

And they’re going to make it, and you can’t, you can’t let that stop you. But I will say also, like I’m talking about a really quick turnaround time, like come up with an idea. Develop the most basic version of it that you can and put it out into the market as soon as possible. And even before you put it out into the market, you start selling it.

Like build the sales page, write the product description, make. The, the product artwork and graphics as if it’s already done. And the, you know, these are things we’ve talked about before, but, but you do all of these things  you make it available for pre-sale. You talk about it consistently. And if people start paying you money before you’ve even finished making it, you might be on to something.

And. And again, I can’t stress enough, like you make this as simple and, and you know, like solve, solve a more specific problem. Maybe, maybe don’t try to make the big version of this idea, but address something that’s a little bit more specific in there. Mmm. And, and there’s, you know, there’s also some room in there for strategy.

Like maybe you do want to put together a really quick lead magnet so that you can. Build an audience and actually, you know, be able to have those conversations in the first place. But I’m talking about the actual product itself. Like one of the ways to validate whether or not a product we’ll sell is to make it and see if it sells, but it’s gotta be, it’s gotta be something that you can turn around quickly because you don’t want to spend a ton of time.

Right. So then if you, if you make this smaller product and you put it out there and people start paying you money for it, then it’s like, Oh, now I’ve got a direction that I can go. I can expand on this. I can build it out. I can make something that might take me six months to develop because now I see that people are interested in this.

Now I see that people trust me enough to spend money, and especially if they get results from this smaller product that I’ve made. They’re going to trust me even more with something bigger.

Dan: [00:37:14] You. You can do all that and it’s definitely a good idea to start smaller. The smaller, the smaller, the better. But I, I think there’s even a level before this. I want to bring in sign people in the community or talking about a right now, a couple of comments that, so Laura said there sure are people who see the value in staying healthy at later stages of their lives, but you have to differentiate between having to educate them and providing for those who are already looking for a fitness program.

And then Ashley said. I have a physical therapy client who is really winning this game. He focuses on active adults with a further focus on runners. He has a Facebook group where he’s fostered a community and he’s now rolling that over into a paid marathon training program with a local gym. This is after two years, building up a YouTube channel, Instagram page, Facebook page group, and now podcast.

So that’s all the content marketing stuff that we talk about a lot. In terms of building your audience, the Facebook group ensured he had an interested audience to take questions from and then know what to sell them. What’s going on here that’s really interesting is this person is focusing on active adults.

So, as Laura pointed out, the difference between having to educate someone and providing for those who are already looking for a fitness program. You know who’s probably gonna buy fitness things, people who already buy fitness things.

So like the, the person who is, if you’ll, if they will ex, excuse the expression, a total couch potato, you’re going to have a very hard time trying to sell them something if you have to start by educating them on why they should care.

That goes for fitness. That goes for anything. If you have to start by trying to teach someone why they should care about the thing you’re selling, you’ve, you’ve, you’ve lost that game much better is to find, find the people who already are looking for something like this. And so if for example, what you’re selling is fitness related, look for people who are already interested in fitness, well, who’s interested in fitness?

People who are already active.

Ben: [00:39:24] Yeah, it’s, and again, it’s that shift in thinking. It’s the difference between trying to put people in front of your product. You know, people who aren’t already looking for it, who, who have to be convinced. Versus putting your product in front of people who were already looking for something.

Dan: [00:39:50] So you, you have to find . And those people, right. And, and now I want to, I love talking about building a landing page and creating a lead magnet. And I love Shawn’s 20 minute lead magnet rule, where it should only take 20 minutes to create a lead magnet because they don’t have to be complicated. All you’re trying to do is give someone something in return for their email address so you can follow up with them.

However, when you’re still validating who your audience is and what sort of problems they have. You can start even smaller. Start with people you already know. Start with your local community. Start with, for example, existing forums. Facebook groups. Find the places where these people hang out and see what they talk about and participate in those conversations.

Because the problem with trying to build an audience from scratch. Is it takes a very long time, right? I mean, we say show up every day for two years, and that’s the case. If you, now, the fact of the matter is if you put a sales page on the internet with a link to get a lead magnet and return for an email address, who’s going to come visit that page?

Okay, so now let’s talk about SEO. Let’s talk about buying advertising to direct traffic to the page. We’ll, okay, now you’ve got some traffic. Who’s the traffic? Is it just random internet people? This is not going. This is going to be a very inefficient way to find, to find the people that you want to serve with your products.

Go and look for them instead of trying to get them to come to you.

Ben: [00:41:32] Yeah. And you know, to, to get more specific, talking about online forums, like you think of a place like Reddit where there are already conversations happening around specific topics.

Dan: [00:41:44] Yeah. Around literally everything.

Ben: [00:41:46] Right? And you can, you can browse through those and you can interact with people. You can answer questions and, you know, like, not necessarily try to sell them on your thing there, but really just what you’re doing is, you’re, you’re developing relationships, building the know, like trust factor really is just all about building relationships.

And you, we’ll do that for a long time. Before you’re really ready to or in a position to sell something. But the online forms is a place you can go. You can go to the comments section of other people who have already created products within the same theme or topic that you’re looking at. So, and this, you know, there, there’s nothing wrong with going to the comment section of a YouTube video.

For somebody who has, you know, 500,000 or a million followers, like they’re not able to follow up with every single question or comment that you can jump. You can sure jump in there and you can share your perspective. You can have conversations with people and there’s nothing wrong with that. Like you’re not trying to steal those people away from this person.

You’re trying to create your own connection, your own relationship.

And then. Over time as you do that and you create like you, if you create a significant connection with like 10 people that has, like I, and I’m not, I’m not talking about just like you had a couple of conversations back and forth, like you get deep with them where it’s like, okay, they really now see you as somebody they can trust.

And ask questions and like, they’re even saying, Hey, do you, do you talk about this stuff anywhere? Like where can I find out more about this? Or can I sign up for an email list? Or do you have a podcast on this? Like you, you have invested enough time to create that kind of connection that 10 people can turn into a hundred people and then you just keep repeating the process, but you’re, you’re really just trying to deepen those connections.

And that seems inefficient. And I think this is like, this is the thing that I have a really hard time with because you know, like I look at people with 500,000 followers and I’m like, well, how do I get from where I am to that as fast as possible? And it seems like on the surface, really investing in a single person, it’s just not scalable.

Like. If, if I couldn’t do that at 500,000 people, I shouldn’t be doing it now, but it’s, it’s actually the exact opposite. Like the fastest way to get explosive growth is to go really deep with people as much as you can.

Dan: [00:44:47] Well there, there’s another reason you need to do that too, and it’s because today we’re talking about validating your big idea. We’re not talking about how to build an audience now, building an audience as part of it. But here’s the thing. I can’t remember what grade they taught me this in, but I remember how strange I found it.

When you divide any number by zero, it doesn’t matter what it is. The result is zero. If you, excuse me, multiply, not divide. If you divide anything by zero, the world explodes. Don’t even try it. If you multiply one by zero, you get zero. If you multiply, if you multiply a billion by zero, still zero is the problem.

So. If you make connections with like 10 people, you get to know them. You know what they’re looking for, you know what kind of problems they have. Develop something for those people. And it, it like, it doesn’t even have to be a product. It could be a, it could be like a video consulting call

and sell it to them.

Because here’s the thing, if you create something and you can’t sell it to one person. You can’t sell it to 500,000 people either, right? Like 500,000 times zero is still zero. So again, the reason to really focus on getting deep instead of trying to go wide is if you don’t even know that you have, Successful product idea yet trying to sell it to everyone on the planet will not avail you. You have to find the people who will at you. You have to find out that people will actually buy it. And here’s the thing. If you have 10 people who seemed like they would be good customers of this idea and you can’t sell it to even like not even one of them will buy it from you, start working on something else.

Don’t, don’t take that and go, well forget these bozos. I’ll just find a million people on the internet. Cause surely they’ll buy it. Like if the 10 people that know your brand, the best won’t buy your thing, that is a signal that you have not validated that thing. And, and this is good though, this, you might be thinking, but then then I’ve failed.

No, you have saved yourself an enormous amount of time and energy. Mental and emotional and otherwise because you haven’t invested tons of time and potentially money in creating this thing that people don’t want to buy. You’ve got to find your first paying customer before you know that you can sell this idea to half a million people.

Ben: [00:47:25] It’s tough though. You know? Like I think what, what kind of comes with big idea is not just like you’ve got a big idea product, but I think also this mentality of like, everybody’s going to, everybody’s going to love this. This is, it’s such a great idea. Like people are gonna flock to this. It’s just, it’s so.

It’s such a great idea that like it’s attractive. It’s going to, I’m just going to put it out there and it’s going to have this attractive quality to it, and it’s really hard not to think small, not to be like, not to think, how can I get one person to be excited about this or. What would, and this is the better question, what, what can I make that one person would be really excited to buy?

And I think it’s a, it’s a similar idea to how we talk about the way that we talk to people in, in the content that we produce and stuff like it’s. It’s easy to kind of just think of, Oh, there’s this mass of people out there and, and you know, get on the video and say, Hey everyone, and you know, like use those kind of terms when really it’s so much better if you can imagine that you’re just talking to one person, you’re just, you’re just trying to find out what one person will buy, what one person will enthusiastically.

You know, pull out their wallet and swipe their credit card.  computers don’t have like a credit card swiper thing anymore. They never did. That’s not the point. But you know what I’m saying? Like that should be, that should be your focus.

Dan: [00:49:32] Yeah, it’s it should, you know, you’re talking about the big idea and just imagining there’s a real danger. Ben, there’s a real danger in fantasizing about this big idea you have, and there’s an, there’s an ancient episode of the Sean West podcast. We never go full , but episode 41 is called. Your idea is worthless.

The sooner you realize this, the better, which is, which is rough. Who wants to hear that? I’m really glad Sean said it so that I don’t have to, but actually I am going to say it, Ben, your idea is not special and a million other people have had the same idea already and some of them might do something about it.

Like it’s the same as this worry that like, Oh, someone will steal my idea. Well. Okay. Having been a software developer, I have experienced this, and every other software developer has at some point too, when you tell someone, maybe it’s your dentist, maybe it’s a hairdresser, maybe it’s a random person on the street that you’re a software developer.

Some someone, one of them will eventually go, Oh, I have this great idea for an app, and you’ll go, Oh, that’s cool. What’s the idea? And they won’t want to tell you. Why won’t they want to tell you? Because they’re afraid. They, you’ll steal it. And I have bad news for those people. Someone already made the thing that they think is so amazing.

Or in a couple of weeks, someone will like, ideas are cheap. You will have a million ideas in your life and so will everyone else. All that matters is actually executing on an idea. And since we’re talking about building a product that people will buy, all that matters is finding out that someone will pay for this thing.

It doesn’t matter how good you think the idea is or how broad you think its appeal will be. The focus really is, can I find one person who will pay me for this? Because if not, your idea is just a fantasy. It’s not a business.

Ben: [00:51:37] That’s harsh. No, it’s, it’s true though.

Dan: [00:51:41] I imported some harsh Sean.

Ben: [00:51:42] You can’t, I mean, you probably, you probably never experienced this, Dan, but you know, like Rachel, Rachel will tell people that she’s written a book or that she’s, you know, published a book. And at least 50% of them will say, Oh man, yeah, I’ve had a, had a, I’ve had a book in my head for years. I just need to sit down and write that thing.

The I, I would say that probably of those 50% of people that say that to, to Rachel, 100% of them, well, never actually sit down and write that book. I, I dunno, like I feel a little bit. Sad saying this, but the chances of me actually going out and executing on this idea that I have about as much as, as much as I, I seem to care about it, I’m not special.

You know, there’s nothing special about this idea. Like, like other fitness professionals who have spent years in that profession, haven’t also had the idea of like wanting to help people maintain. Their longterm health and mobility, like  not special.

Dan: [00:52:56] You’re, you’re at Ben. You’re not special. No, wait, wait. Now you’re, you’re dragging me into this too. You are a special Ben.

Ben: [00:53:03] If I don’t, if I don’t do anything with it, you know? So it’s like.

Dan: [00:53:09] Well, and it’s, it’s fine. It’s fine to have lots of ideas that you never do anything with. Like, you know, you’re talking about like I’m a writer. Sometimes I write things. I have lots and lots of ideas for stories I could tell I’m never going to write the vast majority of them, and that’s fine, and it’s fine because I know that ideas are cheap.

I know that there isn’t this one idea that will finally be the thing that makes my life into a magical fantasy world that I have in my head. Like, this is not how it works. And so it’s okay to have an idea for a business you want to build and then never pursue it. But what we’re again, like what we’re trying to, to keep you from doing is having an idea and pursuing it the wrong way.

Ben: [00:53:56] Yeah.

Dan: [00:53:57] Right? That’s, and so, so the, the point of the, this idea that like ideas are worthless, isn’t to make you feel bad. Really. It isn’t like it’s to help you unlock that or release, rather, it’s to help you release the grip that you have on the one idea that you must preserve above all else. So that instead you can focus on.

This concept of like finding the people that you want to serve and learning what they value.

Ben: [00:54:33] Yeah. So it, it really does seem to come first to building an audience, finding and building an audience. I think it’s, I mean, it’s so much harder to sell something when you don’t actually have people to sell it to you who, who already. You are already connected to you.

Dan: [00:54:58] Yeah, it’s true.

Ben: [00:55:00] You know, people, people, people have done that. But it’s incredibly difficult. And I think the best information that you can get is going to come from people who feel connected to you and have a relationship with you who you know, when you ask them questions about their experiences, struggles and frustrations are going to provide.

The, the language and the information that you need to build something that really would be a great solution for them that they would pay money for. And so I really, I really love that focus on, you know, focus on focus on people first and building relationships with people first. And. That can be, you know, like within a specific focus within a specific topic or industry.

Like I’m not saying don’t, don’t have something in mind when you go out to try to, to build an audience and find people. But yeah, I mean, the, the way that you said it, Dan was perfect, and Laura posted this in the chat. Find the people you want to serve and learn what they value.

Dan: [00:56:21] Well. Thank you. I’ve always wanted to be a creator of aphorisms. But you know what I I like, I like how you put it, build a relationship. And I think I’d actually like, I’d like to highlight the phrase, build a relationship over the phrase, build an audience. If only because often when we talk about building an audience, I think we, we sometimes in our heads, we jump right to the idea of scaling an audience.

You know, come back to what you were saying, Ben, about the person with 500,000 followers and envying that like. What we’re talking about right now is really more about building those relationships. So yeah, build an audience. Go find some people and put some content in front of them that they, you know, find interesting so that they can get to know you.

But do that on a small scale, you know, do that as, as you said, Ben, you know, find Reddit groups and comments sections where people are talking about stuff you’re interested in, comment on them. You know, join the conversation and again, yeah, this, this seems that this can make, this can make us very impatient because it’s not about, it’s not about how to get a million people following your YouTube channel, but again, really what you want to do is get to know a small number of people very well, and then you can develop a product for those people.

And then you can try to sell it to them. If that works on a small scale, chances are it’ll work on a larger scale, but you’ve got to get something that works first before you worry about the scale. Because again, you know, we have a great episode on this. I’m going to have to retrieve the number unless someone in the chat wants to do it for me, but we have a show called why you’re internet famous and still broke.

That talks all about this idea that like it’s entirely possible to build a huge audience that you can’t sell anything to. And that might make you feel good because it feels good to have a bunch of people paying attention to you. But again, it’s not going to give you a business.

Ben: [00:58:22] Right.

Dan: [00:58:22] The place to start the ad, the place to start is really developing those relationships with, with individual, with individual people.

Well, I was just going to say, we got a couple of community questions, but was there anything else you wanted to touch on before we answer those.

Ben: [00:58:40] Well, I was just going to say this real quick as it relates to building an audience, because it’s. It’s not a question of like how many, like how can I get the most people in my audience? It’s really a question of how can I get the best people and my audience? And that’s, that’s, that’s an entirely different approach.

And I think just thinking of it, thinking of it in that way is, is how you keep the focus in the right place when it comes to building relationships with people. I’m not trying to get 500,000. People as fast as I can. I’m trying to get 500 of the very best people, like the, the people who would benefit the most and get the most value out of being a part of my audience.

Dan: [00:59:32] I, I think it, it fits in the same lines as just being obsessed with us. This big idea. It’s easy to look out in the world and see people. That have huge businesses that have huge audiences and imagine how great it would be if we could be them, but, but that’s really not how you build something successful.

How you build something successful is finding people that need something and serving them, serving them. That’s the other thing too, is that it’s not about you, like it’s not about you and this huge audience. Like if you want, for example, Ben, if you want people too. Be healthier in their fifties and sixties I presumably you want that for those people’s sake and not so that when they’re 65 they can Pat you on the back and say, thanks buddy.

I, you know, I wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for you. I mean, there’s always a little selfish part of us that does want that, and that’s fine, but fundamentally, this is about. This is about building relationships and finding people to serve. It’s not about building a gigantic on differentiated pool of attention on the internet for your ego’s sake.

I don’t think I’ve convinced Ben, but that’s all right. I’ll keep working on him. Laura and the chat. is still is kicking butt today. She came up with episode two, three zero. So you’d go to  dot com slash two 30 why are internet famous and still broke? That’s a great one to go listen to or listen to again, if you haven’t already.

I think let’s take a look at these, community questions, Ben, and then we’ll wrap things up.

Ben: [01:01:10] Sounds good.

Dan: [01:01:11] All right. So I, and I actually think that, that we’ve touched on these already, so that’s the Mark of a good show to me, is if we answer people’s questions without even trying. But Garrett had asked if someone else has done it with success before you.

Is that validation enough? And Tony asked, there are a million workout programs out there. She’s into the fitness thing just like you been. Why would me adding to the noise with my program be successful with so much already out there? And I brought up both of these at once because they’re, they’re almost like opposite sides of the same coin.

One of them is saying, if other people are already doing the thing, does that mean I’ll be successful? And on the other hand. Tony’s asking since so many people are doing the thing, how can I be successful?

Ben: [01:02:02] Yeah. I mean, I guess. I guess really that the answer to both of those questions is kind of the same thing because it all comes back to building a relationship.

If somebody has done it with success before you.

That is, I think in terms of a specific product or whether or not you can build an audience around a specific topic.

I think that’s validation enough to know that you could go into a space and you could. Start conversations with people and, and build a relationships. But that’s not necessarily validation that people will buy your product because what has to happen before people will buy a product that you make that maybe there, people are already buying a similar product or a product that solves a similar pro problem from someone else.

Mmm. The difference there is you haven’t built those relationships yet. So, and then to Tony’s question, the reason your program we’ll be successful is because of the relationships you build and the effectiveness of your, of your product is an important factor. But ultimately

people will buy from you because they trust you.

And then if your, if your product is, effective at solving their problem, then that will help them, you know, in their decision to buy the next thing from you. But again, that comes back to trust because it’s like, okay, you’ve proven to me that you can make something that actually solves my problems. So now I trust you more.

You know, like I bought an iPhone from Apple is my very first one was that, you know, generation three that had the beveled edge or whatever. It was such a fantastic product experience that it opened me up to the possibility that I might want to buy from somebody else or I might, I might want to buy, and another one of their products, sorry, is what I meant to say.

And so now, like I own no less than seven or eight different products from Apple because of that very first experience. But it was because through their product, they deepened my trust in them too. Make good products. before that, though, it has to be about the relationship that you build with people.

Even in a saturated market.

Dan: [01:04:48] Yeah. You can use, start with that example because there are very few markets in which there is only one successful entrant. Right? I mean, even as. . You know, it seems like the personal technology and like the smartphone market, there is not, it does. It’s, it seems like, I don’t know how you would start a smartphone, like a company building smart phones in 2020 and get anywhere.

Maybe you wouldn’t, but at the same time, there are people who buy them from Apple and there are people who buy them from Samsung and the people who buy ’em from Samsung. Love their Samsung phone and want to buy another one. And the people that buy the iPhone love their iPhone and want to buy another one.

And the market is big enough to support both of those. And we’re talking about like the biggest, you know, one of the biggest markets in the world with billions and billions at stake and only a couple of companies. And they’re still both. You know, they’re still all hanging on in there. I don’t know how well they’re all hanging on, but to, to move to on the example of fitness, you know, with the fitness world, there are dozens or hundreds or who knows, thousands of people selling various products and services.

There might be millions. There could even be millions. They’re all selling products and services, and a lot of them are successful simultaneously. So, you know, to go back to Garrett’s question, if someone is already doing something in this market, is that validation enough? It’s a good start, but it doesn’t automatically mean that you can come in and compete.

So there’s, there’s two things. You can either find a smaller niche inside a successful market that you can, where you can be the best thing. Right? So you might have a hard time competing with Gold’s gym, right? But you don’t have to start a gym. You could start a private, like a small private group coaching business, right?

And there’s lots of personal trainers that do stuff like that. And at the same time, you don’t want to go somewhere where no one is having any success, right. Like. You’re probably not going to be successful at creating a whole new market. And that comes back to that idea of you don’t really want to have to educate people.

You want to find the people that are already looking for the kind of product you’re going to sell. And so, so that’s to Garrett’s point. And then I think you really covered, you know what, what Tony might’ve been worrying about, which is how can I make a difference? How can I make a splash in this market where there’s already so much.

And it comes down to that trust, right? It comes down to the fact that your voice is different from other people’s. Laura said in the chat, Laura’s clearly the VIP of this episode, by the way. She said, personally, I don’t like the tone most of the fitness world uses, so I found those who use a different approach.

So I’m sure there are all kinds of different needs and preferences. So much of it comes down to personality and compatibility, especially with something as personal as fitness, right? And that this is true of any kind of training or coaching. There’s a, there’s going to be a huge variety of people who just, you know, they’ll buy from you because they like you and they don’t like this other person, or they don’t feel like this other person.

Speaks to them. Right? When it comes to things like fitness, some people want a really gentle touch. Other people really want the kind of like stereotypical, a drill Sergeant style of coaching like that works for some and it doesn’t work for others. DOE earning, earning the trust of your own, of some portion of that market is what’s going to let you compete there.

Ben: [01:08:29] And it doesn’t, it doesn’t have to be a lot, you know, like

this is, so, this is kind of a side question I just have bouncing around in my head is like, what’s the difference between the.

Smart device market and the fitness market where

you, you have a market that produces, you know, like two or three major competitors that essentially drown out any other attempt to create a similar product that could compete.

You know, and then you’ve got the fitness market where there are all. Varieties of different levels, where you, you know, you have like the Gold’s gyms where there are maybe like a dozen big box gyms compare, like, like really large gym brands competing for that market share. But then you’ve got these smaller private trainers, personal trainers.

CrossFit places, that are just local, some crawfish crop, CrossFit, places that are, Mmm. You know, like throughout the, the United States. so many different versions of it. Like I’m, I’m kind of curious about the difference. And I think, I think a lot of it comes down to like, there’s a much. And, and unfortunately in some cases, there’s a much lower barrier to entry because if you, you can develop trust with people just on the basis of the information you’re giving them.

You don’t have to spend thousands of dollars or hundreds of thousands of dollars developing a physical product. You know, like it’s, it’s a lot easier to. To get into. I guess that’s the major difference is kind of the difference between the nature of those products.

Dan: [01:10:33] And there’s nothing, I don’t think there’s nothing unfortunate about that. In fact, I, you know, I think the whole reason we’re able to do this show and the people listening to it are able to build businesses. Is because so many markets now have this low barrier to entry. Like I, I know you’re, you know what you’re probably thinking, Ben, is that there’s, there’s a lot of people that aren’t, that are of low quality in the fitness space, and yeah, sure.

But from the perspective of, you know, those of us that are, you know, we’re gonna, we’re gonna. Start a business and we’re going to do our best to serve people. The fact that you can do it so easily and you don’t need to, you don’t need returns to scale. Like if you want to manufacture a smartphone, the only way that’s going to work as to make a million of them and try to sell them to a million people.

Ben: [01:11:22] Yeah.

Dan: [01:11:22] If there are so many other businesses where not only do you not need to get big, you know, this goes back to what we are talking about. Prioritizing relationships over building a big audience. The fact of the matter is selling, selling products, even selling products that are a lot more expensive to fewer people is almost certainly going to be a better business model for most of us.

Then trying to sell something relatively undifferentiated to everybody.

Ben: [01:11:55] Yeah. And so the, the other thing I was wanting to say about the fitness stuff is, for example, I know of, a person who sells an online membership and does some group training and some one on one training provides. customized workouts and stuff like that for the people who are part of our membership.

And she charges something like $250 a month. So let’s say, let’s say for example, she was only charging $100 a month for people to be a part of her membership. She would only need 100 paying members to make $10,000 a month.

100 people is not a small number in some sense, but it’s also not like you have to go out there and get a thousand or 10,000 people to follow you or to, you know, to purchase your product necessarily.

It just, it, you, you’d be surprised at what you can accomplish with a relatively small audience. That you’ve really invested in and built relationships with, you will differentiate yourself just by virtue of the fact that you are a unique individual with your own personality. You will see there was, there are certain people who will more naturally connect with you and some who won’t, you know?

And so like, it’s great that so-and-so has. A fitness program out there that probably would work really well for me, but I can’t, you know, watch their workout videos three days a week because I don’t like the sound of their voice or see, you know, like something weird or dumb like that. Whereas maybe you have a more soothing kind of encouraging voice and that really helps me.

Yeah, my workout done. I don’t know, like that’s, that’s a silly example, but

Dan: [01:14:06] No, it’s not. It’s not a silly exam. It’s not a silly example, Ben, because the, this, especially when we’re talking about things where you’re teaching somebody. Well, we talked a lot about fitness, but this goes for if you’re teaching people to program computers or how to, you know, so clothes or grow a Rose, like

Ben: [01:14:26] I see what you did there.

Dan: [01:14:27] your voice will.

I’m glad, I’m glad you do. Like your voice. Your voice does make a difference. I, you know what? I think that we have delivered, I think we’ve delivered a good show today.

Ben: [01:14:43] Sure.

Dan: [01:14:46] All right. That’s not really the level of enthusiasm I was hoping for, but it’s been a long show. It’s been a long show.

Ben: [01:14:51] No, I, I, I think so. I know, I feel. More discouraged than I did before about just going out there with my big idea. I’m ready to let it go. I’m ready to, I’m ready to open my mind to the possibility that I could develop a relationship with people in the fitness space and discover that there’s something they need from me that’s different from the idea that I have, and that’s okay.

And I only get to discover that if I build those relationships.

Did I sum that up? Okay,

Dan: [01:15:30] You did. You summed it up very well. Ben, you want to wrap this up?

Ben: [01:15:34] Dan, where can people go to find us online?

Dan: [01:15:37] You can go to Shawn and check out our membership. So you’ve been hearing from some of our members, well, not hearing from them, but I’ve been reading what they’ve been saying in the chat today. So. If you’re listening to this podcast, members get to be there when the show is streamed live. It’s streamed live in the Sean Les community, and that’s an amazing place to go, not just to participate in these live shows, but also to have conversations about all these sorts of topics.

So you’re building a business, you want to sell products, you want to do client work. There are people in the community 24 seven it’s always open and you can get. Support. You can get personalized help on all of this stuff. So if anything that we said today is ringing a bell for you is resonating with you, you should go to Shawn check out the membership.

You get access to all of our courses, which I believe is somewhere around $8,000 worth. At this point. We’re actually increasing the price of annual membership soon, and when you go and sign up, you always lock in. The current price for as long as you maintain your membership. So there’s really never been a better time.

Go to Sean and check it out,

Ben: [01:16:49] Do it.

Dan: [01:16:51] Ben, where can people find you online?

Ben: [01:16:54] You can find and I’m also at Ben Tolson on all of the things. Oh, remind me in the after show, I want to talk about something. Kind of kind of having to do with with a where you can find me online. Dan, where can they find you online?

Dan: [01:17:13] You can find and I am DJ Jacobson, author on Instagram, and I will try to remember to remind you, Ben.

Ben: [01:17:23] I appreciate that. No, I won’t. I won’t forget. I’m ready. I’m excited to talk about this secrets coming up.

Dan: [01:17:31] Oh, stay tuned.

Ben: [01:18:15] So as of this recording  as we record this, it is the 3rd of March, right? So.

Dan: [01:18:24] It’s a the odds of March. No, it’s the third. It’s the third. Sorry. The ads is different.

Ben: [01:18:31] I actually thought I thought about the ides of March.

Dan: [01:18:35] I ruined the after show already.

Ben: [01:18:37] I know. Yeah. Good job. You did it.

Dan: [01:18:41] sorry.

Ben: [01:18:42] I was thinking, I was thinking about the ides of March the other day and just, I don’t know, like this feeling of anxiety swept over me. Like, Oh man, I mean, I got it. I need to, I got to watch out. I got to stay busy. I got to stay vigilant because it’s, you know, it’s so much more than just that reference, right?

It’s like, no. I, I think there, there might be something to this idea that like, we kind of get a little bit, or at least I do. I get a little bit lazy.

I get a little bit complacent just a little bit. Enough that something sneaks up on me anyway, this work, because

Dan: [01:19:28] I’ve never been more confused than I am right now.

Ben: [01:19:32] for the month of March, I’ve challenged myself to post one piece of content every single day across five different platforms,

Dan: [01:19:44] Wow.

Ben: [01:19:45] and I’m, and I’m, this is day three, I’m three days into it. So far, so good. Mmm. But I’m doing, I’m doing Twitter threads that I’m turning into. I’m taking the whole thread and I’m turning it into a script that I record has a video,

and I’m posting that video natively to YouTube, to Facebook, and to Instagram TV.

And then I’m also sharing the video, the YouTube video link too, Twitter and LinkedIn. So I think that, I think that covers five, but wait, I’m not done. I take that same video and I’m breaking it up into clips

that I’m posting as Instagram stories that are also being shared as Facebook stories. Like I do that thing where I do it in Instagram, but it automatically pushes it over to Facebook.

And if I, I haven’t done this yet cause I haven’t had the time, but if I wanted to, I could also use that script and turn it into an article that I could then either send out as a newsletter or post on, as an article on my website. I could embed the video on my website, I could take the audio from the video, and I could extract that and use that as a podcast.

Like there’s so many things that I could do with this, and I’m trying to do that every single day for 30 days.

Dan: [01:21:23] Wow.

Ben: [01:21:24] And, and it’s an experiment. So at the end of the 30 days, I kind of, I took a snapshot of everything before I got started. You know, like what, what my activity, it was like how many followers, what my engagement was. Took a, took a picture of some of the analytics, and then I’m just going to see what happens.

This is really, for me, it’s more about establishing the key, the habit, getting consistent, because I haven’t been for a long time, but I am curious to see what happens at the end of 30 days. And so what we’re going to do. Is sometime in April we’re going to do an episode where we talk about what happened.

Dan: [01:22:11] I’m gonna look forward to that cause I’m, I’m interested to see. How, how that works and if you survive the process is, are you finding it? Is it, is it a lot of work every day to put stuff on all these different platforms, or have you developed some kind of process to make that easier?

Ben: [01:22:28] You know, I’ll have to talk about that during the show now. aye,

Dan: [01:22:31] wow. All right. That’s a good point.

Ben: [01:22:32] I won’t get in. I won’t get into my process, but I do have a. Or a process, as you say. I do have a, because that’s how you say it in Canada. I do have a process.

Dan: [01:22:44] We’re doing this again, are we?

Ben: [01:22:45] I’m sorry. I just can’t help it.

Dan: [01:22:47] You have a way of, you have a way of doing things, Texas, keep calling.

Ben: [01:22:52] Yeah. so, so I do, I do have a process and. I already kind of outlined some of how that happens, like the order in which I do things, but there’s still some tweaking I need to do to make it as efficient as possible. And I have yet to do every single part of that in one go, like it’s been, well, I think the first day was a Sunday, and so the kids were home and so like there were tons of interruptions.

And then the second day I did some of it, and then the kids got home from school and I had to take care of some stuff, and then I did the rest of it later. And then today I wrote the Twitter thread, like first thing this morning. And then I haven’t, I haven’t recorded the video yet, so like it’s been broken up eventually.

My goal.  is too, do it all at once in one go. See how long it takes. I’m guessing it’s probably somewhere between two to two and a half hours to get all of that finished using the process that I have now. And then eventually, as I, you know, tweak that process and, and put some things in place should be able to get that down to, I think like maybe an hour and a half to two hours.

Maybe we’ll see.

Dan: [01:24:25] Oh, that’s really cool. I’m going to look forward to following you on that. And so that’s why you were saying that because you’re at Ben Tolson on all the things we can go, we can go check out, we can go confirm that you are in fact posting all this content and aren’t just pretending.

Ben: [01:24:39] Yeah, go to go to any, one of the things, somebody just the other day found, you know, like I was, I was posting the content on Twitter. And I linked to the YouTube video that I made from that same thread on Twitter, which I, I haven’t done in a while, I guess in somebody, commented on the YouTube video who follows me on Twitter and was like, I didn’t know you were here.

I am though. I’m, it’s, I, I believe if I’m not mistaken, I’m going to do it right now. It’s Tolson and. There it is.

Dan: [01:25:19] Well, you got the vanity URL and everything.

Ben: [01:25:21] Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, man.

Dan: [01:25:24] I don’t know how you did that.

Ben: [01:25:25] Tolson I’ve got an account,

Dan: [01:25:31] Just literally anything.

Ben: [01:25:32] Tilson. I’m right there. I’m just kidding.

Dan: [01:25:39] Okay.

Ben: [01:25:39] at Ben Tolson on all of the things.

Dan: [01:25:42] Buy a Mac book. What? So some kind of affiliate deal that you.

Ben: [01:25:50] Yeah, I think so. Tulsan doesn’t work, but I think you have to do the


Dang. I’m not sure I’m going to, LinkedIn is weird, but everything

Dan: [01:26:03] The point is, the point is that you’re at Ben Toulson on all the things.

Ben: [01:26:07] I met Ben Tolson correct.

Dan: [01:26:09] Okay, good.

Ben: [01:26:11] Yeah, hold, hold me accountable. Shoot me some encouragement. honestly, like, I say I’m not interested in the results. I am kind of curious about how things play out. I’m really trying to do this for me, but my gosh, it helps me a ton when I actually hear from people. it helps me a lot. So.

Dan: [01:26:32] You’re not doing it for the legs, but you know the legs, the legs don’t hurt.