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This is the start of a new series that goes behind the scenes on what it takes to create a highly profitable agency.
We quietly launched seanwes media this summer, with a new flagship service, and it’s already a six-figure agency before we’ve really even started promoting our one service.
The service is called Daily Content Machine. Learn more at DailyContentMachine.co.
The offer is simple: We turn your weekly show into daily content.
Every day, 7 days a week, you’ll have 5 videos to post on the big 5 platforms. Imagine the impact your brand will have with 150+ videos going out every month!
All you have to do is record your weekly show.
Okay, now you know the service. But the purpose of this podcast series is not to sell you on our service (though we’d love to work with you). The point is to help YOU create your own highly profitable agency.
We’ll pull back the curtain and break down how to:
- Identify your ideal client
- Make competition irrelevant
- Create processes and systems
- Know exactly what service to sell
- Create a compelling offer that converts
- Price your service package as a no-brainer option
- Switch from “Freelancer Mindset” to “Owner Mindset”
- Scale without breaking things and remain highly profitable
After thinking long and hard, I’ve decided I will share real numbers and actual profit margin on the series. I want to give you unprecedented insight because I hope it will help you avoid making the same mistakes I’ve made over the years.
- Blog: Save Time Blog – Quick Tips for Doing Things Faster on Apple Devices
- Podcast: 341: Doing Work That Makes Money for People Who Have Money
Note: This transcript of the episode was machine-generated and has not been edited for correctness. It’s provided for your convenience when searching. Please excuse any errors.
Sean: I say this a lot. I don’t make the rules here. I I’m interested in helping you be successful and helping you avoid mistakes. What I want is for people to buy your service. What I don’t want is for you to put this work into packaging up a service that nobody buys and you just get crickets. I don’t want that for you.
That said I don’t make the rules. You can put whatever service you want out there. You can try and sell anything. I’m just trying to make it easy for you. If you want it to be easy, don’t just try and sell the thing you want to sell. Go to the person who has money and figure out what they want and what they need, and then sell that.
And it will be easy. I’m telling you on a scale of one to 10, a level one, or level two effort, like I’m just sitting here, I’m just sitting here and people are shoving dollar bills down my throat and like, Oh no, we can’t. We can’t. And they’re like, please take me on as a client. I’m like, not yet. And they’re like more money.
Like that’s what I’m talking about. Good morning, Dan,
Dan: Good morning, Sean.
Sean: this is new. It’s a new
Dan: it is. It’s a whole new thing. And yet it reminds me of the old thing. So it’s like, it’s like an instant classic is what this is.
Sean: How long had you been, how many episodes of the Sean West podcast did you record with Ben? Would you say, was it a couple dozen or something?
Dan: I’d say a couple dozen sounds about right, because we did the first batch after craft and commerce. And then of course, starting in October, November of last year, did a bunch more,
Sean: Crafting commerce makes me miss
Dan: remember, I know me
Sean: if people probably haven’t caught up yet, we did a little episode. Just a moment ago, episode four 95, you me kind of catching up, setting up this series that we’re about to do so we don’t do too much preamble here cause I want to get straight to business.
We got a lot to talk about, but, talk about how. I moved to Idaho, how the pan down mic affected our nomadic travel year. What’s the deal with me being on sabbatical and podcasting, even though it’s still 2020, we covered all of that in the last year. So, so you can go check that out, but, yeah, I could literally walk or bike to the venue where craft and commerce is held.
Unfortunately, there wasn’t one this year because of the pandemic, but I’m looking forward to future years for sure. Cause that was a good time.
Dan: Yeah, that was amazing. I mean, Hey, I met you in person for the first time, along with Lacey Ben, Ryan, a ton of people from the community minnow was there loss out. That was an awesome time. And, and we were looking forward to doing it again this year, but you know what, we’ll be there next year.
Sean: Yeah, well, okay. So, like I said, we did all the preamble stuff in the last episode. You want the catch up, go back to that today. We have. The beginning of an Epic series for you. We are talking about building a profitable agency. What is an agency? Well, it’s, we’re talking about a service agency, so where you are performing work for clients and they’re paying you.
It’s not products, it’s not teaching. It’s just plain old doing the work, mowing the grass, raking the leaves. Doing the thing and then putting some money in the bank. Now, the thing that we’re doing is creating daily content for clients, but not from scratch. We’re taking their weekly show and we’re turning it into to daily content.
And we’ve built an agency around that. And we kind of been doing this behind the scenes while the podcast has been on hiatus with my sabbatical, not much going on with the pandemic. Other than sitting around, ran a marathon or something, you know, on my own. Cause the official event was canceled, but it’s like, what else are you going to do?
Sit around and watch TV shows and eat ice cream. Right. I thought let’s build, let’s build an agency and that’s been going really well. So well, in fact that we thought let’s pull back the curtain a little bit and share what’s been going on as well as why it’s been going well, why we think it’s been going well?
Compared to some other things that haven’t gone as well in years past so that we can help you avoid some of our mistakes and build your own profitable agency.
Dan: That’s I’m so excited. There’s so much to talk about because I I’ve been seeing this happen right before my eyes like us going from get a client and do the work to, I mean, the whole thing with an agency, it’s still client work, but it’s get many clients and well get, pay other people to do the work, right.
Because you can’t do it all yourself, which is probably something we should touch on during this, during the show.
Sean: Yeah. Yeah, there there’s, there’s a lot to talk about. So let’s see here. Let’s start with Sean West media. So Sean was media, is something I’ve been cooking up since 2015 and it’s just the services arm of our business. We’ve got the courses and the training where I’m teaching stuff. We’ve got the products that we’re shipping out, physical digital.
my, my background originally were when I started in business was performing services. From repairing to, you know, like repairing computers, to building websites, to designing logos and all kinds of stuff. So for a good seven years, I was, I was just working with clients. That was my main thing. That was how I made money and then kind of shifted more recently, but I’ve been really excited to get back into client services.
And so I’ve been thinking this up since 2015, but the question was, what, what do we offer. Because we could do so many things, do we do copywriting? Do we help people plan their course? Do we help them film their course or do their email marketing? Like there’s so many different things. But I didn’t want to do everything.
I’m trying to practice what I preach here. You know, curate what we’re about. Pick one specific thing and project that specialize in that. And then actually we can grow eventually we can diversify and do other things, but starting with one very specific offering, which today we’re calling your flagship service.
Your main offer your main service that you provide. That’s that’s your bread and butter. It’s where you make all of your money starting with that one thing. And so for us, that is the daily content machine. That’s what we call it. Daily content machine. You can find out more about it at daily content, machine.co.
We’ve got a little video there. You can see what that’s about, but the, it. Simply is we turn your weekly show into daily content. So you record a weekly show for YouTube. You record a podcast, you film yourself on video, you record a webinar or whatever it is. If you do it once a week, something like 60 minutes of footage, we can turn that into clips that you can post on the top five big platforms, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn.
What did I miss you too. Thank you, Dan. So every single day, you’ve got post going out over 150 posts per month. All you have to do is show up once a week and record. We find the clippable moments. We find the best parts we remove the tangents, the filler words, the gaps, the silence. No one else is doing this.
We write the titles for you. We, we human. Edit the captions. Perfect. No typos. We write the titles. We actually write 10 titles internally for every single clip, just to find the best one. So you’re not having to say trim at this timestamp and here’s the outpoint and use this title and this, we custom designed the template.
We animate the outro with your call to action. We handle everything for you. So is the daily content machine and it’s been going really well. And we want to talk about. All of the things related to why it’s going well. And what you can learn from that. Obviously, if you are interested in hiring us, you have a weekly show or something you record on a weekly basis that you want turned into daily content.
You can go to daily content, machine.co and get in touch. But the point of this series is not to sell you on our service. It’s to pull back the curtain and show you what’s working, why it’s working and how you can build your own profitable agency. Now, the first thing that a lot of people think is. I don’t know if I want to build an agency.
You know, I kinda just got into this myself freelancing. I don’t know if I want to hire someone. I don’t, I don’t know because I’m having a hard time imagining hiring someone else to do the work that I do. Cause then what, what is it that I would do? I know Dan, you you’ve heard some people talk about this in the community, right?
Dan: Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of it’s about, you know, you, you offer a service and you start getting clients, let’s say you do copywriting or you do web development. And it’s kind of hard to imagine, like, okay, I guess I could like hire someone and train them to do it, but a, could I really train them to do. The job as good as I do.
Isn’t, you know, the care and the expertise that I bring to my craft as a copywriter, as a web developer, the whole thing my clients were paying for. So if I hire someone and get them to do the work, what are they paying me for? Like, why doesn’t that person just get clients? You know, I think that is a really hard leap for a person to make from like freelancing to actually running an agency.
Sean: Yeah, I call it the owner mindset. So right now you’re freelancing and that’s just you it’s it’s, it’s just you, you do the work you get paid, you don’t do the work you don’t get paid. And the difficult thing is, well, obviously the part where when you don’t do the work, you don’t get paid. Cause you know, it’s pretty sweet to get paid when someone else does the work, you know, that would be nice if we could set that up for you.
but also when you’re doing the work you’re working in the business, Instead of on the business, improving it, streamlining it, growing it, scaling it. So when you’re in it, it’s really hard to make that switch mentally to start working on it. So I, that’s why I want to help you kind of shift pivot to this owner mindset.
Think in terms of creating an agency instead of freelancing, whatever it is that you’re doing right now. It probably, it probably could turn into an agency, not, not every time, not all of the time, but in a lot of cases it can. And the first thing you’re going to think is, but, but no, I do it so well and no one else would do it as well as me.
And that makes sense. And that probably is true right now, but it’s also probably true that you can train other people to do it as well as you. And when other people are doing. Specific parts of what you do. You’re currently doing all 10 parts, but if other people were specializing in one or two of the parts, they can eventually do it even better than you.
And so by delegating different pieces, you can free yourself up. And the end result is better. Like what the client actually gets is better. What, what you’re creating collectively is more valuable. You can charge more for it, but the difficult thing is you end up. Coming out of doing the work yourself and you end up being an owner, you and you end up overseeing the thing, working on the book instead of in the business.
And so this is not for everyone. Some people just want to do the thing. They want to write the copy. They want to paint the pictures. They want to write the code. And if that’s you, absolutely nothing wrong with that. But as nice as it is. To build something for yourself where let’s say you could feasibly get to a point where you make a million dollars a year, two things.
One, if you have a team, you can, you can go beyond that point much more easily, but two, you can, you could even just make the million dollars a year without having to do the work yourself. So you have total freedom. You can work on the business whenever you want, but you don’t have to. And the business can still make money.
And I think that’s a pretty cool thing.
Dan: That’s. Yeah, that’s the, that’s the thing I, I admit I’m sort of fascinated by, as we, as we work on this is, is the, the way that we kind of keep. Shifting up the stack so that our focus changes to like doing the work, to like training the people, to do the work, to getting the clients, to figuring out the processes to, and then you eventually reach a point where that, that freedom of being a business owner is, is real freedom in the sense that you can you, well, I mean, I guess you could sit on a beach if that’s what you want, right.
Like if you’re, if you’re a salaries paid, but the alternative is you can also go off and like start a new thing. You know, build business. Number two, build business. Number three in the chat. Garrett is kind of laying out his own, little, little plan for, for building an empire here. And that’s, that’s what he’s got.
He’s got grow the company, put people in charge of the company so I can step away and repeat the process with more companies, maybe et cetera, Fran franchise, it eventually like this is really how you go from one person doing a thing to a business or businesses, but it’s true that that’s not for.
Everybody, because it is very different from just doing writing or element or whatever your thing is it really, you, your job now is to run a business, which is very different from your job is to write, copy.
Sean: I’ve been in a unique position. I talked about it a little bit in the last episode where I’m on this sabbatical and I, I worked with Dan. All last year, training him to be able to do everything that I did so he could do it while I was on my sabbatical year. And so he was kind of acting in my stead. And now with the development of Shawn West media, I’ve essentially charged him with continually getting rid of his job because that, that would be my job.
Right. My job as the business owner is to keep getting rid of my job instead of being in after effects. You know, I I’m actually proficient in after effects, but I shouldn’t be doing that. Right. I should be, focusing on two things, voice and vision. You want to delegate everything except a voice and vision.
And like I’ve talked about in the past, I did an episode on the right it’s called the right advice at the wrong time is the wrong advice. And I’d taken a lot of great advice at the wrong time. And so for me, it ended up being wrong advice. And a lot of that advice I took was hire delegate scale, bring on people.
And I don’t want you to hear what I’m saying at the wrong time and apply it because it could be wrong advice for you. Right? So the context in which I’m hiring is we have something that works. We have something people are interested in. We have something that people are paying for. And we found that we validated, which I believe is this episode.
Right. Are we going to talk about that later today?
Dan: I believe so
Sean: Don’t just, don’t just say it, Dan.
Dan: I’m looking, you gotta give me time to look
Sean: Okay. Dan is going to find out, we’re going to talk about how to validate your flagship service, how to make sure this is something that is actually viable. Something that will actually work. Before you hire, we’re going to go all through that today in part one, as well as throughout this entire five part series on building a profitable agency.
So I don’t want you to get things out of order. I don’t want you to just think I need to hire. I need to hire not necessarily, not until we know that you have something good and that’s what we’re going to help you do today. But I just wanted to point out that I basically charged Dan now that we know we have something that’s working with continually getting rid of his job.
Right get first, he’s doing the writing, get someone else to do the writing. Then he’s doing the managing, get someone else to do the managing, just keep getting rid of his job. And I’m one step further removed from Dan. And so what this affords us, the ability to do is work on the business and streamline things and improve things.
And it’s awesome. Okay. I don’t want to get too, like up in the clouds. Like I wanna, I want to make this very actionable, very tangible. So
Dan: I think there’s, there’s, there’s maybe one thing that I just want to, well, okay. Two things. One. we’re going to really dive deep into validating your idea in the third episode, which is all about like packaging up this service. Once you figured out what it is and who your clients are. Sean just wants to put everything in this one episode, you know, one and done, just get it done.
Five hour long podcast. It’s fine. Don’t worry about it. But the, the other thing that maybe we should touch on, Jordan asked in the chat a couple of months ago. Should I even be listening if I don’t like client work and client relations?
Sean: That’s interesting. it’s worth asking yourself why. Because there’s a, there’s a few possibilities in my mind. Maybe you don’t like doing the actual work. There’s one. Maybe you’ve been working with the wrong clients. There’s two. what else could it be Dan? So like, I don’t know, like all that to say you could still have an agency.
Depending on the reason why you don’t like client work, running an agency likely doesn’t involve those reasons.
Dan: It does sound like the kind of problem where the actual problem is something else. Like it’s a symptom. I don’t like client work. I don’t like client relations. Why though, what? And Jordan, you asked the question in the chat. Maybe you can give us some reasons and we can dig. Maybe we dig deeper into this might be for later in the show, you know, maybe, maybe it’s an after show
Sean: she says I don’t like onboarding and value discovery. Okay. So we’re, we have a note here, right? To talk about. Always pricing.
Dan: many, so many nuts. That’s the third is the third episode.
Sean: We’ll do a little teaser then. Cause she’s saying value discovery value discovery is a part of the value based pricing process.
Now it may surprise you to learn that we don’t use value based pricing with the daily content machine. And we’ll explain more about why in. Episode part three, it’s par three coming up. Okay. So you’ll have to wait for that. but Jordan, okay, so we’re going to, we’re going to tell you later on in the pricing and packaging and stuff, how you might be able to do this without value discovery and why you might want to do this.
but then as far as onboarding, that’s also fine because you could have someone else handling onboarding. Right. Like, you got to think like an owner, would you like to own a machine that performs a valuable service for clients who give you money in an engine that is profitable and spins off cash flow for you every month?
You know, I, I have a hard
Dan: pretty good.
Sean: no, and that’s what we’re going to try and help you build here. So if you don’t like doing the actual work, if you don’t like doing value discovery, if you don’t like onboarding. You realize you don’t have to necessarily do all of those things. Now you may need to do them in the interim until you get to the point where you’ve delegated.
So if you’re not willing to put in the hard work upfront yourself before you delegate the different pieces, then maybe it’s not for you because what we are about to lay out, even though we’re trying to give you the blueprint in this five part series still involves a lot of work. It’s just, hopefully we can just tell you the hard work that’s involved and you don’t have to guess a bunch at it.
So I have here that, we’ve got to know acting like you’re creating an agency from the start means writing down your process for everything. And we even have an episode coming up all about processes, but this is more of a teaser. We’re just going deeper and deeper. And until the real, like meat of this episode.
So I appreciate you bearing with, but we’re kind of laying out this kind of master plan here. If things go well, you work with a client. They’re great. You deliver the work. It’s on time. They love it. They’re happy. They’re a success. They’re a good case study. If things go well, when you have a process written down, you can repeat success.
If things don’t go well. You can avoid mistakes and you can improve. You can make sure that mistake never happens again. You know, that project you think about that kind of gave you a bad taste for this whole thing. And you’re like, I don’t even know about this anymore. What if you can guarantee that never happens again.
That is the beauty of process. If it’s all written down, other people can take over different aspects of the business so you can grow. I’ve said it a million times. If your process is not written down, you don’t have a process. You don’t have a process unless it’s written down, you don’t have a process unless it’s written down you, the listener who does the same work every week, every month for clients the same way.
And it’s all in your head and you know, it’s in your head, you do not have a process unless it’s written down. Okay. Got that out of the way. I know it’s a little uncomfortable, but I’m trying to free you from the prison you’ve created for yourself. You need to write down your processes, then you can repeat success.
You can avoid failure, you can delegate and have other people do things to help you grow your business. You can scale this into a money making machine. You can work on it instead of in it. Okay. Building a million dollar agency is easier than you think. You’re just not charging enough money. What do I mean by that let’s work backwards.
So instead of thinking, I could probably sell something for $50. Cause that’s kinda like how you, that’s, where you value yourself, you know, or what you think you could charge or what people might buy. And maybe it’s not $50, but don’t Pat yourself on the back just because you’re comfortable with one 99.
We’re about to talk about numbers with commas. So, if you are selling something for $50, how many do you need to sell to make a million dollars 20,000 units you might be thinking okay. 20,000. Well, I guess I can’t do that because that’s a lot of units to sell. Okay. Well, let’s go with a bigger number.
Let’s try $2,500, but let’s not just go with $2,500 once. Let’s just start from the beginning and ask ourselves what service could we charge? $2,500 for every single month. I know it’s starting to make you think a little bit bigger. Yeah. Dan,
Dan: That’s that’s a little ridiculous though, right? I mean like my rent isn’t even 2,500 a month who spends 2,500 a month on some service.
Sean: Nobody does. In fact, it’s impossible. Good show, sir. The
Dan: Yep. Turns out not a five part series at all, but I, I was, I was just while I was thinking, cause when we were, when we were originally designing this thing, you told this anecdote of like talking to a business owner with a big enough business who mentioned that they had some service. They’re like, hi. Yeah, I signed up for that.
Like six months ago, I haven’t even been using it. It’s like $2,000 a month and you’re just like, wait, what? Like, you could forget to pay you. You could forget that you’re paying for Netflix for like six months. But how could you possibly, how could 2000 a month be such a substantial amount of money? And that’s kind of what unlocked this right.
Sean: Yes. So in a, in a moment I’m going to break down how you find these people, what, what they look like, you know, what cert what, what do you even sell? What is your service? What should you sell? What should you price it at? We’re going to break down all of that in just a moment. Like this episode is going to be Epic.
but to Dan’s point, how I came up with this service is I worked backwards. I reverse engineered it. I started with who, who has money, who can afford to pay me for the service. Right? So let’s, let’s stick with this $2,500 a month. $2,500 a month. Do you know how many clients you need to make? Six figures a year
Dan: well, hold on.
Sean: clients, four clients equals six figure agency.
Dan: More than that. I got to stop pretending that I don’t already know all these
Sean: You get.
Dan: it’s cute. Isn’t it? It’s just like, no, Sean, it couldn’t be
Sean: Four clients $2,500 a month, 12 months in a year, $120,000 for clients. It’s crazy.
Dan: that, that beats like selling t-shirts. Yeah.
Sean: I’m letting you talk to Anna. Keep talking over
Dan: Well, you, you, you do. I love doing this math because we were, you know, you’re talking about like, if you’re selling, cause it comes down to like, how do you get a client? How hard is it to get a client? How much effort does it take? And the problem is if you charge one 10th as much, you need 10 times as many clients, but it’s not 10 times easier to get a client just because you’re charging a 10th as much, which means you have to put in.
Almost the same, if not more, actually, we’ll talk about how you have to put an even more work to get a hundred thousand people paying attention to you so that a small fraction of them will pay you $7 a month for your thing so that you can pay rent with it. Whereas if you find a service that’s so valuable, you can charge 2,500 a month.
You only have to find four clients. And I we’re going to talk about this more in the next episode, which is all about finding clients. It’s not as hard as you think to find clients that will pay that kind of money, as long as they’re the right clients.
Sean: It’s so true. Like I have never worked less hard to get clients it’s, it’s actually absurd. Like, I feel like on a scale of one to 10 for like four or five years, I was working at like an 11 and like I was getting by maybe you’ve been working at a, at an 11 for some years and you’re getting by. Like right now, it’s like a one or a two on the, on the level of effort.
Like I w I get clients accidentally now. And, and I’ll, I’ll show you how to find clients in the next episode. Like it’s when the offer is the right offer for the right person and it’s priced appropriately and it’s packaged well, you position it as a no brainer. This is what we’re going to call your flagship service.
That’s what we’re talking about today. We’re going to show you how to break that down. It’s a no brainer to the right client. They, they have the money. So the way I came up with this is I know from both myself and talking to other six and seven figure business owners, that there is, there is kind of a, a spot on your expense sheet that just kind of, I don’t know why it just flies beneath the radar.
Doesn’t even make sense. I don’t. When I think about this, I’m like, it’s, it literally doesn’t make sense. Maybe it’s actually not even, it’s probably not good food business. Like it’s probably not the way people should be operating, but I’ve just seen it again and again and again, in myself included. So I went to a mastermind retreat few years ago and you know, we’re struggling going a little bit.
And I was like, eh, you know, we’re like trying to meet payroll and all this stuff. And they’re like, let’s look at your expenses. And I was like, What this whole thing, you know, dusted off and they’re like going through and they’re like, what’s this $2,000 a month. And I was like, Oh, you know, I’m paying like a, an affiliate manager.
And they’re like, how’s that going? And I’m like, well, you know, I’ve just been really busy. And, and we haven’t been able to do stuff together, but he’s, he’s trying to do his best. Like at some point we’re going to end, like this is like eight months into the agreement or whatever. I’d been paying him $2,000 a month and we hadn’t been doing anything.
It’s not his fault. You know, but like, I was just like, Oh yeah, you know, at some point we’ll get around to using that. And so it was just $2,000 a month, $2,000 a month, $2,000 a month. It’s helping another business owner, you know, mid high, six figure business, making plenty of money. But he’s like, he didn’t know where it went.
And his problem, I looked at his expense sheet. I did the old switcheroo, you know, let me see your expenses. And for him, it was. Mostly death by a thousand cuts. Meaning just all kinds of like, just lots of random little things. It’s like, you don’t need this, you don’t need that. You know, and all these things that you’re buying, but there was also like a $2,500 a month coach.
And I was like, what’s this? And he’s like, Oh, it’s coach, you know? And he had been skipping a lot of the calls. He, he, he hadn’t even been doing all of the calls that he was paying for. He’d done a few that year. It was towards the end of a year. He’d done a few that year. And it was supposed to be like every week or every other week is paying $2,500 a month.
No, maybe that says something about the value of a coach. Maybe he was actually getting so much out of it. You know, it, it was still worth it. Even if he wasn’t doing all of the calls. But the point of this story is that what I identified in myself and in others is that four, six to seven figure business owners, there is a two to $3,000 a month.
let’s call it a sweet spot from our perspective, as a client services agency, there’s kind of a sweet spot where we can essentially operate under the radar. That’s not to say no one will ever can’t cancel. Right. But like, Surprisingly people kind of ignore these $2,000 a month expenses. I know it sounds crazy, but you either have to take my word for it or you have to experience it yourself, or you have to go do your own research to validate it.
But, this is one of those things that until you yourself are. A mid six figure business owner. You won’t understand the psychology. Like right now, you just can’t even wrap your mind around, like, not knowing or caring where $2,000 a month is going. But unless you wrap your mind around it, either by listening to me or doing your own research, you won’t be able to take advantage of it.
And I don’t say take advantage in like a bad way. I mean, like let’s provide a quality service. Let’s provide the best quality service better than anyone else. But also let’s occupy a spot on their expenses where like, they really just don’t audit it. Is this, is this coming across the right way? Am I making sense, Dan?
Dan: Yeah, it is, but I want to make sure that people are really getting it. Cause I see a couple of comments in the chat, which, Gerritsen Brian Harris sent out an email this week about a Facebook group that costs five bucks a month to be a member of. And it has 5,200 plus members. That’s just under 26 grand a month to run a Facebook group, which is great.
But. How do you get all those people? And this is reminding me of a, another example of a there’s a cool new podcast came out called dithering from these two writers. I really like Ben Thompson and John Gruber. And I believe they recently said they have like 50,000 subscribers and it cost five bucks a month. That’s a $3 million a year business doing three 15 minute podcast episodes a week. Like, that’s amazing. Except John and Ben have been building audiences online for years. That’s why they have 50,000 paying subscribers. John’s been running his blog for like 20 years. 20?
Sean: literally like, like
Dan: Since like 2002.
Sean: each of them.
That’s why they have 50,000
Sean: And same, same with Brian. Like Brian has an email list over a hundred thousand people. And so like, this is not to say you can’t have successful businesses charging, you know, $9 for your products. Like. You absolutely. Can you just have to do it at a massive scale unless you’ve built, an audience or you, you just really intimately understand paid ads and, and that kind of acquisition, which is a whole other beast.
it’s just not practical for a lot of people who are just starting out. I want to show you how you can build a six figure agency starting from zero. Zero being, you have some skills, you, you weren’t born yesterday, but like using your skills to get clients. And I, can you handle four clients in a year? I think you can.
That’s a six figure agency right there. Okay. So by comparison, it takes 85 clients or customers at $99 a month to break six figures, 85. Think about how hard it is to sell 85 people on $99 a month. In fact, the, you know, the psychology is something that you have to think about too. Like the closer you are to Netflix, the more that it’s like, I could cancel this at any time.
Right? So you do $12, you do $19 a month, you know, like. You kind of occupy the expenses line item. Now, maybe you’ve done the research and, you know, for your target demographic, $19 for them kind of flies under the radar. And maybe you can get by with that, but you have to sell a lot and the lower your price point, the more, the bigger your customer service load, the more support tickets, and you don’t want to be doing that yourself.
Do you, do you want to be handling support tickets for 5,000 members? You probably don’t, you know, at that point, like you need someone else to do it. I’m not saying these other models aren’t viable. They absolutely are, but let’s stick with something that’s higher priced that you need fewer people to do, and they just keep paying you to do it.
So let’s see what’s next. And we want to talk about the, who, not the band, but, but your ideal client.
Dan: Oh for a second. I thought we were going to get to talk about the band and I was super, super excited. Yeah. I think this is a good time because we’re saying you only need, you want it. You want four people instead of a hundred people. Okay. Well, but who on earth are those four people that are going to pay you all this money?
Sean: Yeah. So let’s talk about your ideal client. The first thing is they need to have money. Why, why did I spend all this time talking about six figure seven figure business owners in their psychology? Well, because they have money. So, if you want to charge higher prices, your target customer is going to be someone who has a lot of money.
So you need to understand the psychology of someone who has a lot of money at their disposal. And I’m just telling you what I’ve identified about the two to $3,000 a month price point. So if they don’t have money, if you’re a target customer that you want to work with, doesn’t have money. You’re going to have a bad time.
So I’m going to, I’m going to tell you how we built this working backwards, but you can’t skip any of the, any of the steps you can’t be like, okay. Yeah. That, but I want to work with insert client that doesn’t have money. It just doesn’t work. So you have to start, this whole thing starts with the person, the client that you you’re going to be working with.
When I was like looking at this Shawn West media agency idea, I was like, there’s so many things we could do. But I didn’t start with the things I wanted to do. I started with the person who had money and then I started to look at what are their goals and what are their struggles. So if you’re taking notes, this, this is the part where you’re taking notes.
Your ideal client needs to have money. If you want to charge $2,500 a month, they need to be making six, seven figures. Cause you can’t be taking up like 50% of their income. It’s just too hard. You need to take up a small amount of someone’s revenue when their revenue is much larger. So your ideal client needs to have money.
You want to look at what are their goals and their struggles. Let me just say this again. Set aside the service. You think you want to provide, set it aside? Now I say this a lot. I don’t make the rules here. I I’m interested in helping you be successful and helping you avoid mistakes. What I want is for people to buy your service.
What I don’t want is for you to put this work into packaging up a service that nobody buys and you just get crickets. I don’t want that for you. That said I don’t make the rules. You can put whatever service you want out there. You can try and sell anything. I’m just trying to make it easy for you. If you want it to be easy, don’t just try and sell the thing you want to sell.
Go to the person who has money and figure out what they want and what they need, and then sell that. And it will be easy. I’m telling you on a scale of one to 10, a level one, or level two effort, like I’m just sitting here, I’m just sitting here and people are shoving dollar bills down my throat. And like, Oh no, we can’t.
We can’t. And they’re like, please take me on as a client. I’m like, not yet. And they’re like more money. Like that’s what I’m talking about. Dan, Dan thinks this is funny.
Dan: I do. I’ve seen, I’ve seen them. I’ve seen Sean try to fend them off.
Sean: this is, this is what I want for people though. Dan.
Dan: it’s a good place to be. Yeah. It’s a little uncomfortable having them come right up to your door, but.
Sean: Yeah. But, okay. So how, how do we find what it is that we need to sell for people to be able to shove money down your throat? Two things look at their goals, look at their struggles. What is it that they want? Not what you think they want, not what you think they should want, but what is it that they say they want, you may think they want where they should want to grow their business, but maybe they want to spend time with their family.
What are the goals? You need to understand the psychology and then what are their struggles? What is keeping them from getting there? What is the hurdle between where they are now and where they want to be? Those two things will start to help you identify. What it is they want to achieve and what’s keeping them from achieving it.
So we are going to create here a Venn diagram. You’ve seen a Venn diagram for two circles circle on the left circle on the right. And then they intersect a little bit like, like any clips that’s about to happen, right? The overlap in the middle that, that overlap. Is the sweet spot. This is a Venn diagram.
So circle one of the Venn diagram. This is what we’re going to name that circle. It’s called wealthy client problems, wealthy client problem. I’m going to emphasize, again, this is not thing that you want to sell. This is not service you want to perform again, if you want to, if you want to. W what’s, what’s a service.
Someone might want to perform Dan, something random that, that maybe doesn’t make a lot of money, but
Dan: maybe straight and straighten the pictures in their house. Cause they have crooked picture friends and you could, you could just straighten them right up.
Sean: sure you could do that. You could, maybe you really, really like raking leaves. You could do that. but if you just go off of what you want to do, There’s, there’s no guarantee that you’re going to make a lot of money, but if you look at what wealthy people want you to do, you look at what their problems are and you solve them.
You’re going to make money, just insert yourself into the existing flow of money. Find existing flows of money who has money and where are they sending it? Who are they giving it to an insert yourself into that flow? Like, like you’re sitting on an inner tube on a river, just floating down. You’re not trying to swim upstream.
Like, what is it? Salmon
Dan: Yeah, I’m pretty sure that
Sean: don’t don’t swim upstream, insert yourself into the flow and don’t, don’t try and divert the money flow. Right. Just insert yourself into the existing flow and it’s, it’s so much easier. Don’t try and divert. Hey, please come over here. You really want this? Like, you’re just trying too hard. So circle one of the Venn diagram, wealthy client problems, the problems your target prospect wants to solve in service of achieving their goals.
Circle. Number two of the Venn diagram. These are things that you enjoy. And you’re good at circle, two of the Venn diagram, things you enjoy and you’re good at it’s a combination of things. It’s not three circles. It’s just one thing. We’ll call it your enjoy goods. So it’s you don’t like that. Dan?
Dan: Is that really what we’re calling it
Sean: I don’t know.
Enjoy goods, things you enjoy and you’re good at.
Dan: things that you enjoy and you’re good at, and it needs some kind of name, so people will remember it. So, alright. Enjoy goods.
Sean: You’re enjoying goods. So we’ve got wealthy client problems and your enjoy goods, the things you enjoy, the things you’re good
Dan: Jordan. Doesn’t like it. She just says no,
Sean: Good. Good.
Dan: but you see, but you see Jordan Brice missed the first circle because wealthy client problems is not as good a name as your enjoy goods.
Sean: If it makes you angry, then at least you feel something that means you’ll remember it. Okay. So the overlap between wealthy client problems and your enjoy goods, things, you enjoy things you’re good at is your flagship service. Anything in here is a candidate that that can be your flagship service. Okay.
So going back to the who, the person. Right. You can’t just pick anyone and expect to make a lot of money. There’s, there’s a service matrix. You know, you’ve got two things, people, and you’ve got services. So within people, you have people who have money and people who don’t have money within services, you have services that make people money and services that are nice to haves.
AKA. They don’t make people money. So people services have money. Don’t have money, make money for people. Nice to have. This is the service matrix. If you provide a service that is a nice to have for people who don’t have money, you will have a hard time. You will not make a lot of money unless you are an anomaly like 0.0, zero 1%.
There are all ways outliers. It’s always possible. Especially if you have a million followers. You have hundreds of thousands of followers, you can probably make a living. You can probably make good money at scale selling inexpensive things to people who don’t have money. It’s not impossible. It’s improbable.
And I just don’t like the odds. So I’m trying to help you win the game. And if you want to win the game, perform a moneymaking service for people who have money, that is the lowest effort. And it’s the greatest return you will work at a level one or level two. And you will make the level 10 money.
What are people saying in the chat? Dan, do you have any
Dan: People people are still a little bit upset about enjoyed goods. I think, I think people are split though. Jordan refuses to remember it Garrets all over it, which is, you know, I’m not surprised the, you talked about this before in a podcast episode, Sean, you’re talking about products, but the same thing applies.
I believe it was episode three 41 doing work that makes money for people who have money. So that might also have been about client work, but you’ve definitely talked about this idea before with products. And I think we let’s bring it back for a second to the $5 Facebook group and the $5 podcast that are successful for these people who already had gigantic audiences.
It’s it’s, especially not that we’re saying, don’t do that. We’re saying, build yourself such a strong foundation of a moneymaking business that then you can eventually do that. Right. Like, if you start off trying to sell a $5 a month product, so you need 10,000 paying customers, it’s going to be really hard to build a profitable business, but if you start with you only need four clients or six, and you’re already making six figures a year.
Okay. Great. Now, Hey, you can scale that, which is what we’re going to be talking about in this series. But then in addition, yeah, you can build other stuff on top of that. Like make a business that will last long enough to get you to the point, the point where you can have a $5 a month Facebook group that makes you a million dollars a
Sean: Yes. And you want to work backwards? It’s it’s the Tesla Elon Musk strategy. So the Tesla Elon Musk strategy. Is you start with the most premium offer at a premium price. It’s the fancy sports car. It’s the luxury car. And you sell that at a premium to people who have money. They buy those, you have a nice, healthy, profit margin.
You’ve got all of this cash that you can reinvest in making something that’s one tier down. So you’re kind of creating like a pyramid from the top down, right? The, the least amount of people at the top. Have, you know, a disproportionate amount of money, they can afford the hundreds of thousands of dollars, luxury car.
You have more people who have some expendable income, you know, like they can afford some fancy things, but not like luxury cars, just like nice cars. And then you have a lot more people who are looking for something like. More economy, right. Something that works, but works well. I’m willing to invest, but it might take me five to 10 years, you know, to be able to afford it, that kind of a thing.
So you work down, you start with the highest price to the people who have the most money with the best margin that allows you to fill out everything. So there’s that kind of triangle pyramid. However you want to think of it. Approach. the one I like to use, I call the expansion framework. The expansion framework, and this is where, it’s, it’s good.
It’s kind of hard to visualize if you haven’t seen it. I have like graphics for it inside. One of my courses called pre-sale profits. So it’s basically how to get paid in advance to launch your next digital product. I realize we’re talking about services here, not products, but, in that course, presale profits.com.
There’s a graphic for this expansion framework and it looks like an umbrella. And the reason it looks like an umbrella is you have something like five different offers, right? Everything from free to $10, $200 to a thousand dollars to 5,000 or $10,000. Now each of these people can go from the first one, which is like, I got your free product.
I kind of like it. I think I’ll buy the $10 product. I bought your $10 product. I kinda like it. I think I’ll buy your a hundred dollar product. And so on, right? You’ve got the diehard fans who will spend $10,000 to do an in person three day bootcamp or consultation or whatever. Now you might think I can never sell something.
That’s $10,000. It’s like, don’t think about it at massive scale scale. Just think, Hey, I can probably sell a few. There’s probably a few people that would do this, that would bring in a lot more revenue than hundreds of people. At the $10 price point. So you’ve got this nice little upsell path, right? It’s connected.
You filled in all of the gaps and if you kind of like draw it out, it looks a little bit like an umbrella. Like you, you draw out the, the pieces of the umbrella and the little, you know, what do you call them at the bottom and the key here. And this is something I’ve done the wrong way over the years is all of the offers within your umbrella.
In this expansion framework should be related to each other. So the first problem people have is they have not filled out their product spectrum, or their offer spectrum. this is within the expansion framework, right? They, they have the free thing. They have the $7 thing, but they don’t have a $199 thing.
They don’t have a $500 thing. They don’t have a $2,000 thing. And they’re wondering why they don’t make money. When I see people’s revenue. I can very reliably tell you without knowing anything about your business, what your product price points are knowing very little about your business. Like, I can’t know nothing, but if, if I know a little bit about your business, like the type, the relative audience size, if I know your revenue, I can tell you what your product prices are.
And consistently without fail people who are making a hundred thousand dollars. $80,000, 180 $200,000. I’m like, you don’t have, you don’t have a product. That’s a thousand dollars. You don’t have a product that’s $2,500 or more. And I’m right. Every single time. It’s like, yeah, I have a $200 course and I have a $400 tier that I don’t really sell that much.
It’s like, I know like, It’s it’s it’s simply, you need to charge more. If you want to build a million dollar agency it’s it’s not difficult. Like with our model here, what was it? Dan? 36 clients or something. I think it’s yeah, somewhere under 40 clients is a million dollar business. You don’t and that’s without any kind of upsells.
Right? So that’s the first problem is the first problem is you don’t have. Your offers filled in. You’ve got like a couple things, but you don’t have all the way up to the $2,000, the $5,000 offering. That’s why you’re not making much money because you don’t need to make many sales of those higher priced offerings to make a lot of money.
You’ve just got to fill out the spectrum. And what people say is they’re like, well, I don’t, I could never sell something worth $2,500. You got to flip that around. You can’t think. Oh, I can’t sell something with that. You have to think, what would I need to provide in order to justify a $2,500 price tag for this person to whom would this be worth $2,500?
You have to reverse engineer. You have to fill in the gap. You can’t say I can’t make something worth that you’ve got to say, I must make something worth that. What could I make that would be worth that? And to whom is it worth that. Dan you’ve got a face. Like it’s very thoughtful, very pensive.
Dan: Because I’m thinking about, I’m thinking about this mindset, this, but I couldn’t possibly know one, a, no one spends $2,500 a month and I certainly couldn’t provide anything that’s that value valuable. And it just occurred to me the difference that it’s made. To be paying attention to business owners like you, for example, since now, I, you know, I work for you and I see inside your business, but even publicly, you’re talking about this stuff.
If you have any inkling that you want to do, right. This listener, he, you got to start finding people with money to listen to, and. And this, you know, this isn’t about wealth and things like that, but it’s just about, you just will never understand the mindset of like who could spend 2,500 on something.
Like we’re going to talk in our, our, I think in the third episode about pricing and packaging about how Sean, you came up with just like spur of the moment, just came up with an offer where it’s like, wait, what if we offer people something, if they pay a bunch up front. So now we’re out now, we’re not just asking our clients to pass 2,500 a month.
Now we’re not just asking our clients. To do that for a six month commitment. We’re asking them to pay it upfront. We’re asking them to cut us
Sean: hour window,
Dan: a five figure check.
Sean: $25,000, just like, boom. It was an idea, but like Dan saying, you can’t, you can’t
Dan: never, you’ll never have that idea until you. Get inside the head of people who is it that could possibly be sold and then be able to cut you a five figure check. If you don’t know the answer to that question, you got to find some of those people and figure out what do they think about, what do they care about?
What are they interested in? And then there’s your wealthy client problems. And then how does that overlap with your enjoy goods?
Sean: They will literally tell you. They will tell you what they value. They will tell you what they’re struggling with. They will tell you what they want. They will tell you what they’re focused on. You just aren’t willing to do your homework. Why won’t someone just put money in my lap?
Like, you gotta go do something like, we’ll talk more about that and finding clients in the next episode. But the psychology pieces is so true. Like I struggled with client services a decade ago, 15 years ago. because I didn’t understand the psychology of the business owner on the other end. It wasn’t until I became the person writing the five figure checks that I really understood.
I did not understand until I was that person. And so you’re operating with scarcity mindset, you know, you’re, you’re just thinking I need this money. I need this job. You have to be thinking. The way that the prospect is thinking, you have to understand their psychology. And when you do it’s, it’s easy, but there’s only two ways.
It’s only two ways to be able to do it. You either have to become that business owner and experience it yourself, which takes a long time. That’s that’s the way I did it. So I liked now I understand both sides of the equation, or you listen to someone who has done that and you trust them. That’s the only way.
So if you can’t trust someone, You’ve got to become the person to understand this psychology or that the shortcut is find someone you trust. Who’s telling you like me, you don’t have to trust me. I’m just saying, this is how you would do it. If you trust me, that’s the fast way, because I’m telling you how six and seven figure business owners think.
But yeah, man, that, that psychology piece. But I want to, I want to close the loop on my, on my little thing here. I had said. There are two problems that people have with this expansion framework. One is they haven’t filled out all of the offers. You need something from free to $10,000 and everything in between five or six different kinds of offers.
You have to fill those out. You have to reverse engineer them. You can’t say I could never sell something for that. You have to say, what could I sell to whom would it be worth? So fill out the product, spectrum, the service offering spectrum number two. You have multiple umbrellas. I know this because that was my problem.
So this expansion framework thing with the umbrella, we’re on one end, you’ve got free. On the other end, you’ve got 10,000. All of the spokes in between this only works as an upsell path. If all of the products or services, all of the offers within that umbrella are related. My problem was I had the free thing under this umbrella.
I had the a hundred dollar thing. Under that umbrella. I had the $2,500 thing under an entirely separate umbrella. There’s no connection path. There’s no upsell path. It’s a bunch of disconnected points. So even if you ever get lucky enough to sell any one person on any one offer, that’s it game over dead end.
They’re not going anywhere else. So. What, what should we do here at Shaun was media. Does, does what I’m saying mean? Oh, you need to make five offers all at once. Not necessarily, no. Start with one. Use the Elon Musk Tesla strategy. Start with the premium priced offer with the comma even better. If it’s per month.
We’ll talk about that in, in part three, the pricing and packaging, something thousands of dollars per month start premium. Start with one offer. Validate it. Talk about that soon. Then begin to fill in the other offers in, in the expansion framework, begin to fill in the other related offers. It has to be related.
So how would we do that here within Sean with media, with the daily content machine right now we have one service. It is effectively for the sake of this podcast. It’s effectively $2,500 a month. It’s actually between three and $4,000 a month. But if you sign up for a six month commitment, we give you a loyalty rate.
Again, we’ll talk about that in the pricing and packaging episode, but for simplicity sake, $2,500 a month, that’s the R one offer. Dan, I’m going to put you on the spot instead of telling you what I would do, what should we do as far as this like expansion framework umbrella. Sean with media currently, we only have daily content machine.
What do we need to do to fill out this offer spectrum?
Dan: Well, the way I see it from one end, from what I’ve seen. The two easiest ways to get paid are from people who already pay us. So what else do our current clients need? And people who would like our service, but aren’t at a position in their business when they can afford it, because we’ve heard from them.
And that’s something that you’ll hear when you’re offering a premium product. We’ve had people go, Oh man, I wish I was in the position to hire this. Right, because they want, they want daily content on social media, but their business isn’t in a place where they can afford. That price. So how do we capture both of those people in the first thing that occurs to me?
I mean, if you really want to dial into your existing clients, you could try to offer something even more expensive maybe, but in terms of what we’re doing. And again, we’ll talk about this more when it comes to packaging, a productized service, right? Where you’re, you know, you’re just offering the one thing.
It might be difficult to climb way up the pricing ladder from 2,500 a month. And without doing customized work, Okay. So we probably want to offer a cheaper service that a appeals to the clients we’re already doing work for. They go, I love what you guys are doing with the daily content machine. I w you know, I wish I also had this and we could provide that for an ACA for another. $500 a month, thousand dollars a month, who knows. And then similarly people whose business isn’t there yet. The way know we’ve talked about this in the past is like help those people grow their businesses to the point where they can pay you for your premium service. Right. Because of course they’d become your customers.
So all of that leads me to think, okay, what’s a, what’s a sort of related like an adjacent service. So probably still has something to do with helping people create content at a, at a slightly less premium price point. Probably still relatively premium. I’m not talking like a hundred bucks or $10, but we’re now I’m thinking like middle of that umbrella.
Sean: You’re spot on. So here’s how I would fill it out right now. We have Sean with membership $99 a month. Kind of low key here. I don’t even know if I really want to promote it too much. We actually put our entire daily content machine training, literally how we do everything inside the membership. I don’t know.
I actually kind of hesitate Dan. Like, I don’t even know if I want to like tell people that like, it’s the whole like secret sauce. Like it’s the entire. Exactly how we do everything and they could get it for $99. Like we, we charge companies $5,000 a person to train their employees on how to become a daily content machine.
And we like work with them. One-on-one get on calls. We do reviews $5,000, but like the 80 20 of it, the 80 piece. You could get access to in the membership for $99. I like almost don’t even want to like tell people that cause it’s like, what if they make a competing service? You know? I mean, I know we thought about this.
We thought through it before we did it. But what are your thoughts on that?
Dan: there there’s part of that does, when you put it that way, it does kind of sound like one of those ridiculous the managers out of town. And we took the pricing gun and marked everything down things. But, but I think the other way to look at it is the way we think about membership is like the people who join our membership are exactly the kind of people that we’d want to work with.
And so what the members.
Sean: the membership exclusively right now. So we have people messaging us like, Hey, want to work with you? I’m like, we’re hiring from the membership. People in the membership are ready to go there. Next, when we hire the next person, it comes from the membership. Like maybe at some point we exhaust the membership and we go beyond that.
But. Right now we give them the training and they’re like, Hey, I’m trained. I went, I went through your material, you know, and you could take that. You could go start your own thing. You could work with clients, make money. You could do it for your own content, or you could work for Sean was media. But, anyway, all of that to say, we have the $99 price point for here.
Go get the daily content machine training inside the membership vault. We also have, it is a session with me called the topic, brainstorm where in two hours I grill you with questions and I help you prepare all of your topics for the next year. So you know how you like show up and you’re like, what do I write about, what do I record about what do I podcast about?
You’re always figuring it out the night before. How about we plan all of that out, all the topics and the titles and the outlines for the next year. In two hours, you’re going to be exhausted at the end of the session, but I’m going to ask you so many questions. I’m going to write down everything. And at the end, you’ve got your topics planned out for a year.
That’s $499. So we need a free, and we need a, like a $10,000 Dan. So like the free. You know, we don’t have that yet. I’m not, I’m not really super hurting for it yet because we have an existing audience. You know, we don’t have to start from zero free is really helpful when you’re starting from zero. Cause it gets you going.
but we could do some kind of a, well here, I’ll just tell you like, you know, the editorial calendar method, the video I did with like the, the different colored bars and how to like, create an outline, basically how to make five months of content in five minutes. I do that. For the clients who pay me for the topic brainstorm service, but I also teach it right.
And so I could take that method and distill it into a PDF on how to create five months of content in five minutes. And I could offer that as a free lead magnet. Now we’ve got our free, so we got free to 99 to four 99 to 2,500. Then we need a 10,000, but that’s the. That’s the service offering spectrum.
That’s the expansion framework. Any thoughts on that?
Dan: Yeah, I think the, it feels very natural for people to build from the low end first. And you certainly can write, make a free thing, then make a cheap thing and make a slightly more expensive thing. And then a slightly more and than a slightly more. But I mean, we’re just, we’re in terms of like building a sustainable business, it’s just, it sure looks to me like, If you can build from the other side first, it’s much, much easier because it’s just the amount of effort you’re going to put into making a $99 thing, a $99 thing, especially at $99 a month.
Thing still has to have a ton of value to get people to pay a hundred dollars. And that’s still a high enough price point that you really got to like lead people through a journey to buy it. So you’re doing all this effort and you still need. You know, a thousand customers, it just makes so much sense to like, do some, like the amount of extra effort it takes to create a really premium offer from what I’ve experienced so far.
Just like it isn’t that many orders of magnitude higher than what it takes to create a medium price thing. So like,
Sean: It’s like move, move the fulcrum. The fulcrum is the little in the diagram. You know, a Seesaw, the middle
Dan: we’re doing like fourth grade mechanical
Sean: This is, this is the thing, Dan, this is, this is what makes the Sean West podcast different.
Dan: Simple machines.
Sean: learn, you learn language. A lot of people actually have told me they’ve, they’ve learned English from listening to the Sharma’s podcasts.
Dan: That’s awesome.
Sean: It is cool, but I hear this on a lot of other podcasts where like, I understand, I understand why, but they liked to use acronyms a lot. And they like to use advanced concepts that. Not everyone knows like 20% of people in an industry know and the rest just try and kind of hang on and figure out meaning by context.
But one. You could reach so many more people. If you take a few seconds to slow down and explain what a concept means, instead of just saying the word fulcrum and moving on, like, I guarantee you, like, most people will know what I’m talking about when I explain it. But if I just say fulcrum, that’s not a normal word that people use.
Like, unless you’re an engine near or a mathematician or something, you know, like it’s just not a common word. I’m going to explain it in a minute. But if you slow down, you, you a, you get more people on board. And you’re helping them, you know, level up, but also be even the smart people need reminders, magic of seven, et cetera.
Right. And so even if I say, if I just say fulcrum and move on, versus when I’m about to do, which is like define it, then I also insert a picture into your mind. And you remember that even though you’re listening to an audio podcast on a run, man, this is a long run for you. It’s an hour long run. Maybe they break it up down.
They probably break it up. but you remember, it’s like, Oh yeah, I was w I was running by this tree and then I remembered the Seesaw picture. I remember the Seesaw in my mind. So there’s, there’s all kinds of reasons, but fulcrum Seesaw, the middle piece, that’s a fulcrum simplified drawing. You’ll see a triangle, you know, on the horizon or on the, on the baseline triangle.
And then you’ve got a line on the triangle, kind of like a plank, a wooden plank, or a Seesaw when you move. The triangle, when you move the fulcrum, it makes it easier or harder to lift up the other side. So, you know, you’ve seen like the kind of cliche picture of this, where it’s like an elephant is on one side and then like a much smaller animal is on the other side, lifting up the elephant, obviously that’s exaggerated.
Right. But the point is leverage. What’s the famous quote, Dan it’s like, give me something something long enough, far enough, and I can move the moon. You know what I’m talking about?
Dan: on the thing. It is, it is either a fulcrum or a lever. I think it’s a lever long enough and you could move the years.
Sean: Point is Dan and I know you love these long rabbit trails. We’re talking about leverage here. Dan looks to the side, like a shifty character. We’re talking about leverage here, do less work and make more. That’s what we’re trying to help you do. Now. I know, I know you’re the artist, you’re the, you’re the purist, you’re the creative person and you just love your art.
And you’re like, but Sean, I want to make this thing. And it’s not a moneymaking thing, but I still want to make it. And I want to make it for people who don’t have money. That’s where my heart is. Those are the people I care about. And like, I get that. I am not trying to detract from that. What I’m trying to say is the best.
Fastest most effective way to make just that for those people. In fact, even to the point where you can give away what you make for free to the less fortunate is to do what I’m saying by starting first with a moneymaking service, for people who have money, it gives you money, the luxury car, high profit margin that you can then take and invest in the other things that you can sell at a lower price, with less profit to more people, or even give away for free entirely.
It’s it’s the fastest way to get what you want, but it takes a little bit of sacrifice. It takes a little bit of a pivot. It’s a little bit of a, not so much a straight line to success. I know you want that straight line just steady, slow and steady, but it’s going to look like a much more windy kind of twisted.
Spaghetti noodle that you dropped on the floor. Like that’s what success is going to look like. There’s going to be detours. There’s going to be, pivots and changes, you know, especially in the year of a pandemic, you know, a lot of us are having to change up what we do. Maybe you need to change things up that doesn’t mean give up this dream.
It means maybe say no to that now for a season. So you can do some things where you have high leverage. To make a lot of money and profit that you can invest into doing this other thing. However you want.
Dan: There’s a reason we started this agency like a few months ago. Can I tell the story, Sean?
Sean: Go for it.
Dan: I, we were, you know, the Sean’s on the sabbatical, Dan’s running things. Sean spent 2019 teaching me how to do this. So we had campaigns and things around the membership because Sean was membership. Right. That’s our, that’s like our main that’s at the time that, you know, that’s our flag.
That’s the Shawn West flagship product. So we did an annual price increase campaign. We did that last year. It was amazing. Had great success. We did it this year in March at exactly the time when a no one was paying attention. Cause their attention was 100% on the pandemic breaking out and B no one was spending money.
Cause everyone was like, do I have instill of a job? Or, you know, so it was a total. Catastrophe, basically, I think we made what Ford, like 14% of what we had. And so it helped the Tron was stuck in an Airbnb for months with nothing to do, but like we, we got on a call and we just like, so I’m got to keep this business running somehow.
Sean: We had actually hoped to
Dan: how do we make some
Sean: agency in 2019 and it didn’t happen. So we put it off til 2021 after my whole travel year. And it was like, well, that’s not happening anymore. And we need to make money. So. How about we do this thing. And so it.
Dan: What and, but here’s, so here’s the end of that story though? We went well, it was because it wasn’t just, maybe this is a way to make some money. What ended up happening was like, we got our first client in one shot a week. Like we went from having a conversation about how to deliver, like package the service to getting paid.
Sean: And then, and then it was like, is this a fluke? And then it happened again really quick. And we actually had to put a freeze on clients because we’re like, okay, we don’t
Dan: well, there’s only so much work we can do.
Sean: Yeah, we don’t want to grow so fast that we break things. And so we really started dialing in processes and making sure we can deliver consistently a high quality and result.
but, but yeah, I mean,
Dan: And so that goes to the point about leverage because it turned out like we were, we went to a bunch of effort to try to sell a membership membership is great, but you know, it’s 99 a month. It’s six 93. If you pay annually, you get a bunch of months for free. But we’re going to a ton of effort to try to sell people that.
And because of external systems, chances, they’re not buying and it’s like, it’s brutal, right. We’re just struggling to make some money. And then we turn around with a different offer. And this was in the same month, same pandemic, same everything. But find the right clients. And we got asked them to please, no, don’t pay us 2,500 a month yet.
Cause we can’t handle it. Like that’s the difference? That’s that was the thing that was shocking to me, which is why I’m telling the story, like the difference between a position where you have that leverage and a position where you don’t is unbelievable.
Sean: Yeah, it’s it’s it is, it is pretty unbelievable because you think pandemic, lots of people losing their jobs. Lots of people not spending money. It must be impossible to start a business and not just like sell something, but sell something premium at a decent price point. But here here’s just how it happened at the same time that you have a lot of people in certain industries losing their job.
You have a lot of, disproportionately white collar, industries, where there are people who are actually making a lot more money and, and especially in certain digital businesses, like e-commerce, if you look at the bar graphs for like e-commerce, sales over year, over year, it is. Insane. Like how much it’s gone up this year.
Like, it’s there, they’re saying it’s like 10 years of growth in a quarter or something like that. Like, like, you know, e-commerce steadily going up. Right. But then boom. It just goes up because everyone’s at home and spending money online. So you’ve got these business owners who run online businesses, digital businesses, remote businesses, and they’re actually doing really well.
And they’re spending less money because they’re not going anywhere. They’re not driving, they’re not flying. They’re not going out to restaurants like, so they’re making more money and they’re spending less money. So they actually have a surplus, so it’s easy to be deceived in thinking like, Oh look, nobody’s spending money, you know?
And then you’re also like conserving and contracting and like, everyone else must be too right. But, but no, some people are actually doing really well and they have money to spend. And they’re also seeing this as an opportunity. Oh look, everyone else is contracting, but there everyone else is online. More.
No, you’re out, less doing things in public with other people. You’re, you’re more on social media, on your phone. You’ve probably watched more TV shows and movies than ever. at least most people are right now. And so some smart savvy business owners are realizing, Oh, well, like I, fortunately haven’t been hit by this pandemic as, as hard as a lot of other people, but I’m also seeing they’re spending disproportionately more time on social media.
So I’ve got money. And there’s a surplus of attention. This is the time to expand and build brand. I could really like hit the gas pedal here. Dan likes whenever I rhyme things. So I like to do it just to see the little smirk
Dan: It’s worth it.
Sean: expand and build brand. Now is the time now is the time. So if more people are online, you get more attention.
Other people are contracting. This is your competitive advantage. You should be. Pushing the gas pedal to the floor and putting out content every single day because people are, they’re like, we’re getting to the end, you know, of the Instagram feed. And it’s like, you’re up to date and there’s just no more content, you know?
Cause everyone’s just like, you know, how many people do, you know, since the pandemic, they’ve just probably you, you just, you just stopped posting and like, you know, bless your heart. It’s it’s been a tough time. Like I’m not trying to be hard on you. Right. But what I’m trying to. Bring bring your attention to is the fact that most people are doing this.
Like they’ve got a lot of things that they’re dealing with. So they’re not thinking about creating content. What this has has produced is this massive opportunity where everyone’s contracting while at the same time, spending more time on social media consuming, you should be putting out the most content you’ve ever been publishing.
And so some savvy business owners are recognizing this opportunity and they’re coming to us. At daily content machine.co. And they’re saying, you know, I would like to just record something once a week. I don’t want to have to like record every day and edit and stuff. Can I just record once a week? And then I have daily posts going out on the top five platforms over 150 a month, and we say, yes, you can, we can handle that for you.
So there is opportunity out there, but you have to keep your eyes open. You got to do your research. You got to make sure you’re targeting the right people at the right time. We probably have some questions.
Dan: I think we do. We have a couple of questions. Although we answered some during the show, which is always nice. Bryce asked us a really good question. Are there key benchmark goals or metrics that you have or shoot for throughout the whole process starting from zero. And what about even after the startup phase?
What are you looking at for Sean? Was media,
Sean: What’s, what’s your interpretation of this?
Dan: I think maybe, well, Bryce feel free to, if you’re still in the chat, jump in and let us know. But I, you know, I think maybe he’s asking like, like how do you know if this is working? You know, Like looking at what you’re doing Bryce’s here.
So he can, he can fill out this question, Bryce, but it’s, but I’m assuming that, you know, you’re talking key benchmark goals throughout the process when you’re starting from zero. I mean, look, I think when you’re starting from zero and again, we’ll talk about this more in the packaging episode, when we talk about validating your idea, but when you’re starting from zero or you’re just trying to get anyone payment.
Sean: Let me take over well, while you mute from the siren. But, yeah, I, I, the metrics I look at are similar to email marketing, two things replies in your inbox, money in your bank. That’s it. I never look at unsubscribes. I never look at the podcast. Downloads don’t care. All I care about is replies in my inbox money in the bank, people telling me the podcast was really great this week.
Super helpful. Cool. We did a good job people in the community saying that cool. We did a good job. People signing up for membership, people buying, you know. Cool. We did a good job. That’s how I handle my email marketing. I don’t ever look at unsubscribes. I don’t ever look at podcasts downloads. Like the only reason podcasts downloads matter is a as a vanity metric and B if you charge a CPM to an advertiser or sponsor, which we don’t, I know from looking some years ago that the podcast has millions of downloads, but I don’t actually, I don’t actually look at it, which is how it’s helpful that we built our own, like, Server.
So we don’t sign up for one of those like podcast hosting services that, that you probably do. If you have a podcast where you pay 20 bucks a month or whatever, at one point you might remember we had a whole podcast network here, tons of shows. And so it made sense at the time that we kind of built our own custom system.
but you know, for better or worse, it’s not as easy and, you know, beautifully laid out, To see your, your, your statistics, your download stats. There’s no like fancy bar graphs. It’s like a messy server database chart thing. And so that combined with the fact that like I have to log in and also, I don’t care.
I don’t look at the download stats for the podcast. Don’t care. Same thing with daily content machine. Like, what I care about is replies in my inbox and money in the bank. So when our clients say. Like yesterday, you know, you guys are just top notch, love your professionalism, your on time, like, just keep up the great work or like great clips this week, guys, you know, you really, you know, found some gems and made me look good or whatever, like that type of thing.
Like, we love seeing that in our inbox and we love seeing money in the bank, whether it’s upfront all together, just on a consistent basis every single month. I’d say if I could add one more thing, it would be my close rate. You know, getting on prospect calls, consulting calls with prospects and how many of those turn into a convert, you know, turn into a payment.
it’s, it’s pretty good. Like for the first like four or five is a hundred percent close rate. And then we started getting like, I think I’ll be ready after labor day. You know, I need to talk to my business partner. He’s on vacation, you know, I’ll get back to you. but you know, we’ve got pretty good close rate.
And when I haven’t closed, it’s like either it was just not a good fit and they misunderstood something or whatever. or they’re like, I want to start soon. So that’s also a really good sign. So if anything else, I would say the close rate on the prospecting calls.
Dan: Keep it simple. Bryce said this in the chat. Thank you. Keep it simple. Well, KSS, keep it simple, stupid, which is a little insulting to oneself. So you don’t have to keep that second desk in there unless you’d like that sort of edgy nature of the, the acronym, but self-deprecation, that’s important. Yeah. I think what you said about close rate is, is perfect.
Like focus on that. Because again, this is going to tell you if the thing you’re doing is working and that’s the most important thing to figure out. I was going to say, especially if you’re offering a premium service, but really if you’re offering anything, I think that the, the, the trap that people fall into is they just go, I want to start a business.
I want to sell a product. I want to offer a service and they just put something out there. And then wonder why they’re not making any money and it’s because. They haven’t taken the time to validate, like to design something that works and validate it. You alluded to this before, and I can’t even remember the exact context.
Oh, it was classic episodes. You might think that you do almost 500 shows and sometimes one of them is just great and it’s amazing. And it becomes one of the classic shows and it’s just luck of the draw. Right? You do 500 shows and you’re guaranteed. A few of them will be good. The reality is more often than not.
Those episodes were classic for a reason.
Sean: Like I know going in
Dan: Yeah. And I think people see people see businesses and they go, I want to do that. The big, the successful businesses are more often than not successful for a reason.
Sean: it’s calculated upfront. And I, and I haven’t done that over the years. Like for most of the past 15 years I’ve spent in business. I just made what I wanted to make and then sold it. And actually I was talking to Justin Jackson. So I was talking to Justin Jackson on Twitter about this, and he was talking about audience and how, you know, there’s this message that you should build an audience, build an audience, and then sell, build the audience first and then sell.
And he was like, I don’t really know about this advice. And I was kind of. Seeing where he’s coming from with this, because I’ve experienced something similar where you might be thinking like, Oh, well, I, you know, I don’t have an audience, so I can’t do that easy for him. He has an audience, but actually there’s a problem that comes along with this where I could literally make whatever I wanted to make and sell it because there’s a certain percentage of diehard fans that will buy anything you put out, even if it’s a polished turd.
You made a really nice fancy landing page with a lot of beautiful illustrations, but like, was this the right product? Does it actually help people get results? Or did you just make a nice little like animated intro for your landing page video? Right. And the problem is, I mean, you could see it as a good problem, I guess, but I think it’s just a problem is that when you have an audience, a certain percentage of your diehard fans will buy anything you put out.
And what that causes is a false positive. You think you have something you think it’s validated and it’s not, and you are not able to grow outside of your audience. So it’s, you can just make whatever you want and you can probably sell it a little bit, but then you’re going to struggle. You’re going to struggle beyond that.
So it’s just, it’s just way better to start with the person. and we’re going to, we’re going to share ways that in the next episode, on finding clients that you can get clients without having an audience, like from zero, what are the things that you can do to go get the clients without looking super desperate?
Dan: I want to make sure you don’t understate that building the audience first. I think it really is a problem. Cause like you said, those false positives, you can’t build a sustainable business on that. You’ve got to start with the thing that actually works and the way to find out if it actually works just to like, you know, like Shawn, like you’ve been doing so far with the daily content machine where you just talk to people and they go, here’s my credit card.
Well, you know, basically they’re like, here’s, when can I pay you? When can we start? Or you’ve got people reaching out, being like, how do I get started with this? I want it. Then, you know, you have signed the works then. Yeah. Your audience of a million people will, will translate into an enormous successful business.
But if you just have an audience of a million people throwing darts, blindly at the wall, and 10 people buy this and 10 people buy that, how do you even know what you’re supposed to be doing?
Sean: there was a tweet in this thread where someone pointed out a really good observation, which is that. What, what often happens, which can kind of disguise the problem as well, because you may actually figure out the right things you’re supposed to be doing is in building an audience, you learn more about market.
Like, so you really should have done is learn more about the market and reverse engineer, what people need, what they want with solves a problem for them, and then validate it with payment. and by the way, that’s the only way you validate is by taking payment. Not someone who says I will buy sounds great.
I want it. You know, let me know when you launch no payment and like three or five of those, like not just one, cause that could be an anomaly, but this, this point that, that you may actually learn about the market through building an audience rings true for me, because I think that has happened to a degree as well.
So audience first can create some problems, but it can also kind of help you learn more about a market, which might actually put you in a good spot. So it’s, it’s a little bit.
Dan: Well, like, like almost all pieces of advice people want binary. And so the problem is you find someone on Twitter that says, build an audience and then sell and someone else who goes, why you better validate an idea before you build an audience. And the problem is those are both true and they could both lead you to be successful.
This is what’s so frustrating, right, Sean? I mean about. Listening to shows like this and about making shows like this is that people go, how do I like, just tell me the answer? And it’s like, well, I can, I can tell you what worked for us. I can tell you the circumstances under which this works, but you really do have to go deep and hear the context, which is, well, now I want to go on a whole thing about why podcasts are good and clips.
Can’t tell you everything, but
Sean: I want to bring in this question. from Bryce, I freelance in web design and graphic design, but I’m a blank slate moving forward. I don’t know what to offer and what niche to go after. I have a broad skillset in digital marketing. I wouldn’t consider myself an expert at anything, but I’m really attracted to the business ownership side of things because I can project manage well.
And then I noticed here, you had, a note Dan in the questions that says Garrett as well. I’m struggling with finding my niche. Was, was there more info on that or.
Dan: Yeah, well, so I think it’s interesting cause they, like Garrett said, I’m struggling with finding my niche and Bryce said, yeah, me too. Or one of them said it in the other. Agreed. And then Garrett gave a little more color to that. I think for him, the big thing is he’s very, very passionate about serving groups of people who admittedly don’t have money.
And so I think that leaves him a little bit. A drift when it comes to, like he knew Garrett said this, he knows that the most efficient way to do this, as we’ve said is, well, find people who do have money, sell something to them. So you make a bunch of money and then you can turn around and help the people who don’t have money.
But I think it sounds like he’s a little adrift as to, okay. I know I’m passionate about these people who don’t have money, who are the people who do have money that I’m going to serve. And, and it sounds like Bryce’s is maybe entering into like a new. Maybe a little bit of a new profession or something like that where it’s like, okay, I know here’s, here are the things I think I want I do, but I don’t know who to do them for.
Sean: Yeah, it’s kind of overwhelming because there is so much that you could do. And when there’s so many things that you could do so many services services you could offer, what’s the expression. It’s not. Paralysis by analysis. It’s like overwhelm at the possibilities. Is there an expression for that?
Remember, this is a show where people learn English.
Dan: That’s true. Well, there’s like, there’s like the, there’s like the paradox of choice or that, I mean, I remember having this conversation with a friend in the grocery store when there were 36 different kinds of toothpaste to buy and you’re like, choice is not always a good thing.
Sean: It’s the Adobe thing. Remember my tweet.
Dan: right. That’s right.
Sean: Yeah. Whereas like I ju Adobe, I just want to sign a document. And they had like Adobe
Dan: like, which of the
Sean: Adobe Acrobat,
Dan: would you like to?
Sean: Adobe Acrobat pro for enterprise business, professional, personal, Adobe sign. What, what, so there’s like all these different things, all these different price points.
Like I just want to sign a document. And I said, when you have too many offers, people just go to a competitor. It’s like, you think you’re being so helpful here. I can do this, you could do this, you could do this. And the person just, I slept like, I don’t know, you know, and that’s how Bryce’s feeling. It’s like, I’ve got a lot of skills.
Maybe I’m not an expert in any of them, but I could literally do so many different things. I don’t know. And this is what I talk about in overlap. If I think it’s chapter two on finding your passion, most two, most common things are. I have no idea what I’m passionate about, or I have so many passions. I can’t choose one.
And the wave forward is, is, is still pretty similar. You have to try things because you’re currently thinking in terms of ideas of passions. I don’t know what I’m passionate about. That’s an idea. I don’t know what I think I’m passionate about. Same with the other person. I think I’m passionate about so many things.
I’m good at all of these things. The way the answer is to try it is to carve out for yourself and exploratory space. And just have a phase where you try things, pick any one of the things and just try, don’t put any pressure financial or otherwise, or any implications on this thing, because that’s gonna, that’s gonna color the experience it’s gonna make you stressed, you know, just create, carve out a space, you know, like the, like after dinner or whatever in the evening where you’ve got a couple hours to do whatever, like you’re just kinda messing around with things or whatever, like w.
It’s like that space. It’s that space where it’s like your time. There’s no implications. There’s no pressure. That’s what I mean, carve out that space for yourself. Give yourself two to three weeks. Just try some things and get to the point where like, Bryce, you’ve got this big, long list. Like I can do this, I can do this.
I can do this. It’s like, okay. We’ll actually probably four out of five of those things. If you do them enough, no matter how much you think you like something, eventually you’re going to hit a point of resistance. Eventually, you’re going to hit a point where it’s not fun and you don’t enjoy the work that’s going to happen.
What do you do in that moment? Do you give up, do you quit? Do you just leave the desk in a, in a Huff? You know, like you’re, what is it that you do when you face resistance? If you persevere and you come out on the other side of resistance, then you know, you’re passionate about the act of doing the thing, not just the idea of doing the thing.
So you have to audit your passion in that sense, find the things you like, the act of doing. I want to be a bestselling author. Okay. Well, do you like writing? Yeah. I love the idea of writing, you know, just sitting on the porch with a laptop and you see the leaves and the fall and the cabin and the colors and like, yeah.
It’s like, did you watch a movie about writing or something? Like it doesn’t, it’s not like that. It’s like, you, you feel stuck and you don’t want to write, but you want to write and it’s, it’s, it’s this big, complicated mess. Like that’s, that’s what the writing experience feels like. Do you want that? Can you handle that when you face that when you experience that kind of.
A setback or frustration, do you quit or do you keep going? That’s how you know that you’re passionate. And so you’ve got these five different things you could possibly do, but it’s going to be like 10 to 20% of them are actually viable. So it actually becomes a lot easier of a decision. You just have to audit that list and get it down.
Take it from idea. Loving the idea of something to loving the act of doing it. Your list is going to get a lot shorter and it’s the same thing for the person. Who’s like, I don’t even know. I know what I could do. It’s like try some things out. So in the context of this whole flagship service, remember Venn diagram, wealthy client problems and your enjoy goods, the things you enjoy, the things you’re good at.
You’ve got to enjoy it too. You can’t just be good at it. Bryce, like I’m good at animation because I spent like 30 hours teaching myself. But do I actually enjoy getting in there with the key frames? Well, I kind of do I’m I’m I’m a nerd, but like you gotta, you gotta know yourself. All right. I’m just on a, I’m on a soap box and I’ve got to get down.
Dan: I think we got to you you’ve said this so well about what people want to do, figuring out what they want to do. But I think the big question here is who they do it for. Maybe this is for Garrett in particular, if you’re not sure who you want to work with, I think you have to apply some of the same strategy to it.
You’ve said elsewhere that. I think you’ve said this elsewhere, whose problems would you be willing to just deal with every day, Like who who’s pro who, what do you want to do that you’re passionate about? And you have to experiment to find that, but then there’s whose problems are you passionate about?
So, For example, I know one of the things Garrett does is SEO. So I’m just going to pick that as an example, you want M you, you really want to do SEO for nonprofits, so you can help defeat global poverty, which is an excellent goal. But first you have to make money somehow. So you’re going to build a business, doing SEO for people who do have money.
Okay. Well, lots of different kinds of people have money lawyers, real estate agents, small, you know, people running small software as a service businesses. Who, who, who are you going to work with? I think you have to do some of the same activities to figure that out. You got to maybe find some of these people and maybe you do this through pro bono work or some of the other things we’re going to talk about in our, our episode about getting clients.
You got to figure out whose problems do you want to sit with. So for example, we, you know, we’ve, we’ve worked with someone who specializes in who does accounting services and specializes in real estate agents. So they could be an accountant for anybody. All business owners need account need accountants.
And even a lot of individuals need accountants, but you’ve got to, you’ve got to find like, what’s the, what’s the niche whose problems do you care enough about that you actually want to work with those people? And you probably find that the same way. You know, you, you find some of those people and you figure out what their problems are and you spend time with them.
Maybe you follow them on social media. Maybe you just. Have conversations with them. Maybe you offer free consultations on your area of expertise and you figure out who are the people that you actually like to work with, and that can help push you in the direction. Cause remember you need those two parts to your, the Venn diagram of your flagship service.
Let’s say, you know, you’re in which enjoy goods you’re interested in providing who’s wealthy client problems. Are you going to solve, you have to find that as well through the same sort of process.
Sean: The limiting feeling of niching down. Like when you have all these things you could do all of these services you could provide. Like, I, I remember this feeling when, when it came time to decide what we were going to offer for Shawn West media. And it’s like, Oh, we could do so many things. And it’s, it’s, it’s difficult because you get the sense of, if I pick just this, I help people write their book.
If I do do whatever. Right? Whatever one thing you pick, you’re going to feel like I could be doing so much more. But the reason you struggle is because you’re doing all of the things. You need, you need to do fewer things. You need to find one thing that works really well and do more of it. Find one thing that works really well.
What is, what is working really well? Look like. It looks like you enjoy the work and it produces results. Like it’s going well. People are paying your close rate is high. People are happy with the work. You got money in the bank. Like, you know, the things that work well, when you look over the past two to five years of what you’ve done, there are certain times and periods and events where things went really well.
It was like, that was definitely good. I would say that was a success or at least less of a failure like that. That was probably the best thing. And chances are you stopped doing it? For whatever reason, probably shiny object syndrome. You found a thing that worked really well. And then, Ooh, let’s try this other thing.
Now. You’re here. It’s today. You got to find the thing that works well, you enjoy it. You’re getting results. Close rates, high profit margin is good. People are buying. It’s going well and do more of it. So step one, find the thing that is working well and don’t stop until you find it. Like I have not felt something work as well as the daily content machine is working since learned lettering in 2013, 2014.
It’s been six years. Like I’ve been working hard at a level 10 effort level, 11 effort in, you know, you know, my workaholic background I’ve been working hard and I haven’t found anything that has clicked like this that has worked well. And so. My advice would be to, you know, to my past self is you will know if you’re like, well, I don’t know.
Like, would you say this is if you’re asking? No, that’s not it keep going. You will know. It’s just like, it’s like lightning. It’s like, boom. You know, it’s like, Whoa, making sound bites here, Dan,
Dan: It’s like, boom. It’s like, Whoa, good show, sir.
Sean: Sean McCabe 2020, probably. When you find the thing that’s working, you will know. Okay. So go until you find the thing that’s working and do not stop. If it takes you six years, go until, until right. Then when you find the thing that’s working, do more of what works don’t stop, do more of it, like milk it for all it’s worth, like, get as much as you can out of this thing in the moment, because.
It’s fleeting things that, that work don’t always work forever in perpetuity. They work now wow. In this environment, in this economy, you know, with, with this technology and this, this year with this generation, whatever right. It’s working now, there’s no guarantee it’s gonna work tomorrow. So like the. You, you don’t want to fall into the trap of trying to come up with some kind of passive income system that’s going to serve you until you’re 70 years old or 80 years old.
Like you, the best thing you can do is learn how to learn and learn how to reinvent yourself and learn how to stay current, learn how to solve people’s problems, learn how to validate offers. Then you’re good. Now you’re impervious to whatever life’s going to throw at. You. But, but don’t try and like build something once now that’s going to like serve you for the rest of your career.
Like you’re just setting yourself up for trouble. You’re like, no, no one anticipated a pandemic. You know, it just throws a wrench into the whole thing. You have to be able and willing to reinvent yourself.
Dan: Man like an hour 45 until the show when no one’s listening anymore. And you start dropping the
Sean: That’s why we have the daily content machine just clips for days.
Dan: That’s right. That’s going to make a good one. Well, you, you said it
Sean: can I finish the last, last thought on that? Like, like this whole, like sense of like, I could be doing so much more and like limiting yourself and niching down, like it is. That feeling of discomfort, the limiting feeling of like, Ugh, just, just this one thing though, Sean, like, even though I could do all these other
Dan: do so many things, all the
Sean: that limiting feeling is the very thing that makes it easy later on.
Like when you’re just cruising, you know, that level one level, two effort that I’m talking about, people shoving money down your throat. It is because it is simple. It is straightforward. You found a thing that works and then like a wet rag, you know, you’re ringing it out for like, like get all the, all the liquid out of it.
Like get everything that it has to offer, you know, like do, do more of it. Right. And the beautiful thing is you can expand from there because when you have one thing and you’ve got momentum and you’re going, you’ve got, you got people on board. Like. You can add other offers, you can expand your offering, but like that gives you that initial traction.
So if you feel the, the limitation, the sense of limitation, the feeling of like, but I could do so much more lean into that because that is the thing that makes it easy later on.
Dan: Sorry. Yeah. I’m just, thinking about that. Like, it is attempting to go after the new, the new stuff, the new thing, right. And this, well, this is why I’m excited for us to talk about scaling this thing. Right. Because that’s all about finding the thing that works in doing more of it. In fact, I’d say building an agency at all is an exercise in taking something that works and doing more of it.
I mean, we could. Build a creative agency. Like the Shawn West brand is good enough that if we wanted to offer logo, design and website, redesigns and copy. Yeah. Writing and et cetera, and marketing packages and email sequences.
Sean: Like when you do one thing. You were able to do it well, which builds your brand. If you do 10 things, you can’t do them as well as if you did one thing, which means your brand is not reaching its full capacity. Do one thing. I’m not saying do one thing forever, do one thing at a time and a season.
So you do the one thing. Well, and people are like, wow, they really do that. Well. And they’re like, who’s this? Oh Sean Wes, man. That’s quality. Sean, Wes equals quality. That’s that’s the brand. Now we can do anything. You can do anything. You just put your brand on it, you put your stamp on it. Right. And then people are like, well, okay.
He sells t-shirts. They must be quality. He puts on a conference. It must be quality. That that’s the beautiful thing. There’s just so much power in choosing one thing and focusing on it. Just, just one thing at a time.
Dan: That was, I think you brought it back to what I was, what I was wanting to say before about, you know, you want to do all the things and you you’ve built the brand, but if you start with the one thing you can build into the other ones, whereas if you try to start off doing everything, you can’t get traction, right?
It’s like that notion of curating what you share, where if you try to just show everyone everything, you know, people aren’t paying attention and they don’t care. You have to find like the one person’s problem to solve. And then they notice you. And then you get a reputation for doing that with a high level of quality.
And then later, when it’s time to appeal to the people who need, you know, bathroom renovations or whatever, and now you build a contracting company. I think I just invented a new business for Asia.
Sean: No that’s yours. You can run with that one.
Sean: I think for the people who made it this far, they, they deserve to know the titles of the remaining parts in the series. What he say.
Dan: Well, you’re just throwing this at me now.
Sean: No, I’ve got it. I’ve got the list. You just give me the green light.
Dan: Oh, I thought you wanted me to invent titles,
Sean: No, we did. We already did it.
Dan: lay it on us, Sean. Lay it on
Sean: Alright. So part two is what’s coming up next week. Part two is finding new clients and I’m going to put a parent theoretical, which is even if you don’t have an existing audience, even if you don’t know where to start, I’m gonna show you some stuff you can do from zero.
Part three, as we alluded to is pricing your service. This is like, should you use value based pricing? Should you do productized services? We’re going to talk about that. We’re going to talk about packaging. We’re going to talk about price anchoring. We’re going to talk about validation. You’re going to talk about what the price should be.
Part four is automating everything, make money while you sleep. That’s going to be good. I’m not going to tell you what’s in that. You just have to listen to it. The fifth part is hiring the right people. and Dan’s note here is this is where you start really building a business. Cause I thought for a decade notice how, like, I’m just going to do like meta teaching here.
I, I think in terms of clips, so I reset and I create the hook of the clip. Right. So instead of just kind of going into it, Dan, why are you shaking your head?
Dan: Just you’re giving it all away. We, where do we sell this training to people? Sean? Now you’re
Sean: give it all
Dan: in the podcast.
Sean: For a for let’s see, gotta reset. This is the salvia sausage just made. This is the podcast for a decade. I thought I was building businesses and really, I was just building fancy jobs for myself. I was, I was creating customized obligations with my logo. That’s it. Like I wasn’t building a business. A business is an asset.
A business is a thing that runs without me. You, it runs on autopilot. You can work on it when you weren’t want to work on it, improve it, streamline it. Create process, processes, systems grow higher scale, but you don’t have to work in it. That’s a business. It took me over a decade to figure out I need to build a business.
Dan: Just building customized obligations for yourself. That’s so bad.
Sean: That’s what, that’s what we call one of those short clips. That was probably like 28 seconds. The team’s going to be like, it’s a really short one and I’ll be like, do it all right. We need it. We need an end. We need to end the show. I’m having too much fun. It’s a good series though. Right? Did I like, did we deliver, this is only part
Dan: definitely delivered. I know we knew it. We were like the show’s going to be like two hours long and it turns out
Sean: you did a great job.
Dan: Thank you. My first time on video on the podcast, I think.
Sean: it’s like the first real show we’ve done together. And I told you before we went on
Dan: we’ve been meaning to
Sean: you know, we, we get on like calls all day. Like. Six hours of calls a day.
Dan: calls for
Sean: We do, we do so much calls. so we talk a lot, but I was like, you know, Dan, I don’t know if you’re ready for, for me in my element.
Like, I don’t know. You you’ve seen it, but have you experienced
Dan: Well, now that I’ve experienced it, I can say that it was a barely tolerable. No, it was, it was good. It was really good.
Sean: But in all seriousness, you did great, like. Like you’re, you’re a pro at this. Your, your picture looks really good by the way. For people not watching. Sean was.com/four 96. Sean was.com/four 96. See, episode number. What episode is it? You look at the number dot com slash that number. Take you to the show notes.
Why, why would you want to go to the show notes? Why would you want to see those lousy things? Well, we’ve got this new, like fancy, Well, the transcript box, you can search, you can find anything. We said any links in the notes there, but also more importantly, the video version is embedded. What are you doing?
Listening to the podcast on audio? Nobody does that anymore. I’m just kidding. But Dan’s really, really handsome looking guy. His lighting is on point. I mean, you sound, you sound good. You look good. I just want to say, I never would’ve thought like you weren’t a pro podcaster, so. For our first like official show together.
Dan: Thank you very much, especially by slipping in the, you’re not a pro podcast or there at the end.
Sean: is that’s what they call it. Backhanded. Compliment.
Dan: It’s exactly what they call it.
Dan: Good show, sir. It was a solid show and we got a bunch more coming.
Sean: you want to wrap this up?
Dan: Yeah. Sean, where can people go to find us online?
Sean: You can go to Sean, wes.com and sign up for membership. Why would you want to do that? Well, you get access to all of our training. So the daily content machine training, you got that presale profits where we talk about the expansion framework, how to get paid in advance for your next digital product. You got that the classic value based pricing program, 72 lessons, the pricing tools, all of that.
It’s $8,000 worth of training. You get that as a member, Sean with.com also supports the show. you’ll notice this episode. You’d had eight minutes of ads, the member of her. Oh, wait, no, we don’t do ads. We don’t interrupt your experience. We give this to you for free cost us money to do that. So we really appreciate all the support the members give us in our ability to produce this show ad free for all of you.
So obviously thank you for doing that, but you get a pre show. You get a bonus after, after show, you get to you get to be Garrett. Garrett, the guy where like, we’re just talking, like we’re having a, just a small conversation, Dan, me carrot, just, Hey, let’s help out, Garrett. Let’s help out. Bryce, you get to hang out in the chat.
We make the show customized to you. It’s a lot of fun. but yeah, the community of Dan and I were talking about it, it’s like, no one, no one expects the community. Like they sign up for all the courses. Cause you get access to everything. You don’t have to pay individually. it’s just like Netflix for business training, but then it’s like, Whoa, The community there’s live shows and there’s other people.
And you know, it can ask questions and get answers and get some clarity. So dot com. That’s what you can do, Dan, where can people find you online though?
Dan: I’ve been pretty heads down lately, doing all this daily content machine stuff with you. But if you want to check out the things I do put online DJ jacobson.com.
Sean: Very good. Let’s try that again. That’s a little rusty. We’re doing it live. I’ve got some ultra music. Let’s see if this will play. When I press this button. All right. It’s coming in a little rusty, Dan sabbatical.
Dan: Yeah, it’s okay. But the Outre, music’s only way I know the show is over. So I was like, I was on edge until that moment. Man the podcast is back. Can I just say, I think I nailed the thing where the Outre music swells and you have to stop talking at like
Sean: I was worried. I mean, we’d never done it before, so I was
Dan: And, and I, I almost forgot about it, but I heard this just the style, like it triggered a man. I mean, I’ve edited an awful lot of those shows. So like, I just heard that and I went and seen it’s good to self-congratulatory after show is
Sean: it was, it was a good one. I think it was good.
Sean: Not like top hundred, but no, I’m kidding. I’m kidding.
Dan: Woof woof, such high standards, but I mean, you have done almost 500 shows. So
Sean: So, you know, people might be wondering like when we posted the last episode, four 95, a saw a YouTube comment and it was like Dan with three question marks, which is, is so open to interpretation. So many things they could
Dan: who was that person? Do they know me? Like what
Sean: Yeah, so who knows, but I, I’m going to take a
Dan: lost brother.
Sean: I’m going to guess maybe someone is surprised because there’s no Ben, Ben it’s been on the show since like episode 21 for the most part.
And there’s no Ben. So, I mean, we didn’t really know what post sabbatical would look like. You know, what, what happens do we continue doing the show? Is it a solo show? Do we resume? You know, Well, if I take a year off, if Ben takes a year off, you know, both of our lives could look very different. certainly didn’t expect to start the show up again this early, but I don’t think anyone expected a pandemic.
So it’s like, Hey, we’re here. and what we’ve been doing is building an agency. And so that’s, that’s what’s top of mind here. It’s like Dan and I are working together every day, building this agency. And so wanted to just share that. On the podcast. I don’t know what the future looks like. You know, like I am still on sabbatical.
So technically I told Dan like, Hey, if I don’t want to do these shows, I don’t have to it’s sabbatical, but I think you can tell, like, I get excited. So I’m probably going to want to do next week’s episode. but yeah. What does it look like after the sabbatical? What does it look like after 2020? In 2021.
Does the podcast resume the way it did? I mean, now I don’t live in Texas anymore. I’m not a few miles away from Ben there’s. He can’t drive over and be in the office. Do we do remote? Is Ben available? Does his schedule allow for it? Like does Dan continue to do the show? Do I do a solo show? These are all questions up in the air.
Like, I don’t know. I don’t have the answers for you. What I do know is we’re back. Earlier than expected. It’s me. It’s Dan. And for now we’re talking about building an agency. So there you go.
Dan: It’s cool. I mean, the, the agency, this was so what’s the right word. Can’t think of it. Of course. Cause you have to listen to this podcast to learn how to speak English, but it, serendipitous is the word I was thinking of has to be a $10 word too. Cause it’s the after show. It just came out. It was such a good, you know, the agency thing was the right fit for how 20, 20 turned out and then.
Once we were building the agency at some point months ago, we were like, we could probably do a whole series of podcasts on this. And I was like, could we though let’s start a list. And we came up with like 17 bullet
Sean: We actually had
Dan: in five minutes. Yeah. And it was just like, Oh, I guess we could do a podcast. Oh, okay.
Well we should do that sometime. And it’s still been months, you
Dan: until we
Sean: for it for a while, but also there’s lots of building and you know, you’ve been doing a lot of work inside the agency until recently we started bringing on some help, which frees you up a little bit, you know, so we thought
Dan: had to get to the point where I could stop doing the work long enough to talk about the work on a podcast for two hours,
Sean: All right. Cool. Let’s, wrap up the show there and what we’ll do. And after, after show that’s live only for the members. So you don’t get to hear that part unless you’re in the community. But for now, if you enjoyed that, I’d love. If you’d send me a message, at Shawn West, you could do a DM on Instagram, you know, hit me up with a tweet on Twitter.
Love to hear that you made it all the way to the end. And you enjoyed the show. Who knows if, like I said, Dan, I don’t look at the stats. I just look at the replies. So send me a message. Also, if you have questions, you want to hear something in one of the next parts of the series hit me up.