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Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5 (Coming Soon)

So, you’ve figured out your flagship service. Great!

After following what we covered in the last episode, on pricing and packaging, you now have a strong offer that converts. Most of the clients you attract accept the offer you’re making. Awesome!

Since we know we have something that works, now it’s time to automate it.

(Important note: You want to automate what works. Don’t automate what doesn’t work! If you don’t have a flagship service, or you don’t have an offer, or you’re not getting clients, or the majority of clients you’re attracting are not accepting the offer you’re making, DON’T AUTOMATE. Go back and fix the previous steps first.)

Remember, automation is powerful. If you’re already heading in the right direction, automating is your best friend. But if you’re heading in the wrong direction automation is your worst nightmare.

The word “automate” may make you think of robots or machines. But while tools, software, macros, and algorithms are great, there’s another way you can automate that involves zero coding:

Creating processes.

Processes are a group of steps that make up a procedure for performing some kind of task. It’s how you do your work.

If you create a process for how you do your work, you can hand off that process to another person and they can do your work for you.

Automation isn’t limited to things that robots do. Automation includes processes for things that humans can do as well!

We’ll be covering:

  • Who creates processes
  • What processes to create
  • Why to create processes
  • Where processes live
  • When to create processes
  • How to create processes

Essentially: make money while you sleep.

Show Notes
Episode Transcript

Note: This transcript of the episode was machine-generated and has not been edited for correctness. It’s provided for your convenience when searching. Please excuse any errors.

Sean: [00:00:00] Anything you do more than once you want to automate it in a way to automate things is by creating processes, you don’t have a process unless it’s written down. You don’t have a process unless it’s written down. Good morning, Dan,

Dan: [00:00:32] Good morning, Sean,

Sean: [00:00:34] how are you doing?

Dan: [00:00:36] I’m doing alright this morning. How are you doing?

Sean: [00:00:39] Good. Good. I’m excited. I’m excited about this episode, kind of came together a little more. Last minute. We had planned out this series well in advance and I thought I had all these notes on this topic. And so last night I was putting together the document and there’s like one bullet. I’m like, Oh no, this is not going to do so actually now it’s, it’s a pretty jam packed show.

Cause I added so much here. Yeah, we we’ve got a lot here. So the premise of today’s show talking about processes, creating processes and automating everything. So you’ve, you’ve got your, you’ve got your flagship service. see if I can switch my camera here. Go camera go. There we go. You got your flagship service. And you, you found a way to get clients.

We talked about that in part two and then pricing and packaging. You’ve put together an offer and this offer is converting well with the clients you’re attracting. Most of them are taking you up on the offer because you crafted it. Well, you positioned it. Well, you did price anchoring, like we talked about and you’ve hit that sweet spot price point.

So everyone’s taking you up on this. You’ve got a good thing going. Now it’s time to automate, but what I, what I don’t want you to do is take something that’s not working like, Oh, I don’t really know what my service is. I don’t really know how I’m going to find clients. I, I, I don’t really have an offer that converts, but maybe if I automate everything suddenly that will solve all of my problems.

It, it won’t, it won’t solve your problems. It’ll make it a lot worse if, if you’re on a ship and you’re going in the right direction. And you automate everything. Well, then automation is your best friend you’re heading in the right direction. But if you’re heading even slightly in the wrong direction, automation can be your worst nightmare because it’s just going to take you faster to a place you don’t want to go.

So automation is not a silver bullet, but if you’ve got things that are working, it’s very powerful. It’s very helpful. So with that said, I just really want to set up that context for today’s show that don’t just think automating is a silver bullet. Everything we’re going to talk about today is helpful.

If what you’re doing is already working, I did that camera thing again, Dan. Oh, man.

Dan: [00:03:05] We’re just revealing

Sean: [00:03:08] Revealing all the

Dan: [00:03:09] That’s on Sean’s desktop. It’s real good.

Sean: [00:03:11] Okay. Let me see if I can fix this.

Dan: [00:03:15] We’re doing it live.

Sean: [00:03:17] it live. We’ll edit and post. All right.

Dan: [00:03:19] Yes,

Sean: [00:03:20] Okay. So let’s try this again. So Dan automation is not a silver bullet. You want to automate things that are working. You want to make sure you have something that works before you automate.

Dan: [00:03:35] That’s true. Yeah. Well, we’re talking about this in the context of building a profitable agency, right? This is part four of our five part series on building a profitable agency. And what we did at Shawn West media was we did all the work. First right before we wrote down our processes for doing it and high and then hiring other people to execute those processes.

So you have to know that the thing you do actually works first before you start trying to automate, because we, if we, if we’d had something that didn’t produce like good quality output, and then we just hired a bunch of people and said, okay, do this, then we’d be producing more bad output for more clients.

That wouldn’t be a good thing. You got to make sure it works first.

Sean: [00:04:21] You may hear the word automate and think of robots or machines. and that’s true. They’ll a lot of automation involves. Robots machines, software tools, macros algorithms, all that stuff. And, and those things are great, but there’s another way you can automate that involves zero coding and that is creating processes.

And that’s what we’re going to be talking about today. Processes. So what are processes? Processes are a group of steps that make up a procedure for performing some kind of task. It’s how you do your work. And if you create a process for how you do your work, you can hand off that process to another person and they can do that work for you.

So automation isn’t limited to things that only robots can do. Automation includes processes for things that humans can do as well. So today we’re going to be covering who creates processes. What processes should you create? Why should you create processes? Where do those processes live? When do you create processes and how do you create processes?

And the ultimate goal here is essentially to make money while you sleep. If you have something that’s working, automate it. Get it to run on autopilot. And that doesn’t just mean the tools. It can also mean people. So the way that you automate things for people is by creating processes, you should have a process for everything you do in your business.

Now, the most important thing that I’ll repeat often, because it’s important is that you don’t have a process unless it’s written down. If it’s in your head, You don’t have a process. It has to be written down. It has to be written down. You don’t have a process unless you have it written down. The biggest thing that’s going to prevent you from being able to scale your business is lack of processes, lack of these groups of skills that it’s a procedure for performing some kind of task.

How you do your work. A process is a group of steps that make up or procedure. So don’t, don’t overcomplicate this in your mind. Like, Oh, I don’t, I don’t know a process sounds very complicated. Is that a flowchart? Is that no, it’s very simple. A process is a list of steps. If you’ve ever created a note on your phone, on your computer with a bullet list.

You have everything you need to create a process. That’s all, it is very simply. It is a bullet list. Now you can get fancier, you can use special tools and project management systems for creating cool processes that are assigned to people and have conditional logic and dependencies, and you know, all this stuff, but you don’t have to, you know, that’s getting really fancy.

It’s as simple as what are the steps to produce a certain outcome. So, what, what are the things that you do in your business? Maybe it’s writing a blog post, maybe it’s sending an email newsletter, or it could be something more complicated, like creating a course, creating marketing and launching a course.

You know, these are all different pieces to, things that go into launching an online course. So you might have a process for outlining the course. You might have an, a process for scripting, your course, you might have a process for recording your course or filming it. Right. And then one for editing and then one for adding it, adding the videos and the material to your learning management system.

Okay. Now you have a course. That’s great. And it’s inside a learning management system, but you need people to buy it. Well, what goes into that? Well, you need a way for them to purchase it. So let’s add it to an eCommerce system or maybe the course platform you use already has that built in. Great. But then you need a way for people to buy it.

You need to sell it to them. You need to run a launch campaign. Maybe you should have some promotional videos. Maybe you need to write some copy for a landing page. Maybe you need to send out some emails. All of these things are little building blocks, and if you’re doing these things. Without processes for doing these things.

Well, this kind of gets into why should you create processes? Well, if you don’t create processes and systems for getting the work done, your business will run you instead of you running your business. So you want to be able to run your business. You don’t want your business. To run you processes free you up to be able to do different things and come back and not have to remember what was it that I did last time?

You know, how did I do this? You shouldn’t use your brain as storage power. I don’t attempt to remember anything. I just write down everything because I want to use my brain as processing power. I want to use my brain to think not to remember. So if I have processes, I don’t have to remember all of the steps I took to produce a certain outcome.

If I have processes, I can delegate. If I don’t have processes, I can’t delegate. Meaning if there’s an emergency and the person who normally does something is not available, someone else can fill in. You don’t want people to, you don’t want anyone in your business, including yourself to be irreplaceable.

Because things happen. This is not about like, not valuing people. This is about things happen. Sometimes people get injured, sometimes emergencies happen and you need to be able to get the things done that maybe right now only one person knows how to do. That’s. What processes can help you with. If you have processes, you can spot problems.

You can identify where something went wrong and you can fix it. You can avoid making those same mistakes. In the future. So you can improve the way that you do things. If you have processes, you can, you can do things better. You can’t improve a process that you haven’t written down. So if you’re able to improve it and do things better, you end up saving time.

Also, this is a really important one when you actually have processes or when you have projects that go well, and you’re happy with the outcome, a process enables you to be able to repeat success. When things go, well,

Dan: [00:10:55] Yeah, you, you caught me off guard there. I’m sorry. I’m trying to figure out how you get started with all this. Like how do you know which processes are the ones you should automate or what are the ones you should automate first?

Sean: [00:11:13] that’s a good question. So which process should you create? First? You’re sold on this idea of processes. Okay, Sean, I get it. I should have a process for the way that I do things and I don’t have a process unless it’s written down. I understand that I have to write it down, but I’m feeling a little bit overwhelmed because there’s a lot of things that I do in my business.

And I don’t know where to start. I don’t know which process to create first. Well, I would start with the highest value thing that you do. I don’t know what that is for you necessarily, but let’s, let’s take it just to the bottom line of what actually makes money in your business. What, what produces the greatest results?

I would start there. So imagine, imagine this, you get hit by a bus you’re in the hospital. It’s terrible people, people are bringing, what do they bring, Dan? They bring balloons,

Dan: [00:12:11] Flowers cards. Yep.

Sean: [00:12:13] Okay. So you’re surrounded by all of these gifts in the hospital. Maybe you got a body cast or something, but the thing is you’re not able to work in the business anymore.

Someone else has to do those things. What, one thing of all of the things you can no longer do? What one thing is the worst that you don’t have a process for? What is the most important? Like if you could say at this point, you could say, if you could wave a magic wand and have one process for one of the things you did, what would that be?

That’s where I would start create a process for the most important thing. The highest value thing that gives you the greatest leverage because processes are there. They’re so valuable processes are so incredibly valuable. It it’s, it’s the building blocks of your business. And, and the cool thing is you can, you can clone these building blocks, you can duplicate them.

So you’ve got a thing that you do, and then you have another similar thing that you do. You can duplicate that process and tweak it a little bit. And so you start creating these building blocks. You know, and it’s, it’s, it’s like laying bricks, you know, and if any one brick is knocked out, well, you still have a really strong wall here.

It’s not like it all comes crumbling down. You know? So these, these building blocks are really, really powerful. What, what have you found Dan, to be the biggest problem in areas where we don’t have processes? Like what, what is the result of not having a process?

Dan: [00:13:52] The two things I’ve noticed are, one of them is error is actually Josh and the chat, pointed out a great, made a great point, which was, you know, also consider creating processes for whatever’s the most error prone, you know, what, whatever is the most likely to introduce problems. You want to have the most processes around.

So, so that’s part of it, is just suffering from. You know, things go wrong. And a lot of times they’re there, they’re the things that you would call stupid mistakes because you go, Oh, I can’t believe I forgot that one thing. Well, if you have a process, you don’t have to worry about just forgetting that one thing.

And then the second part that, that makes it challenging is as soon as you try to train someone, because we’ve, you know, we’re, we’re in the process of training. Ah, see what I did there, we’re in the process of training people, Inside a Sean West media. And there are some parts of the process that are better documented than others and the ones that are well-documented, it’s pretty easy to get someone up to speed the ones that are not as well documented.

It’s actually a lot more challenging to try to hand off the process to someone else because you keep finding yourself, you know, trying to explain how you do what you do and then realizing, Oh, I’d never really thought this through before, but. here’s a part of the work that I do this way, but you’re not going to be able to do it that way.

So now, you know, it, you find yourself like realizing where your processes are missing or where they have holes in them.

Sean: [00:15:19] Yeah, you don’t really notice. You don’t really understand how or why you do your work until you create a process. You think, you know, but, but you don’t actually know. You’re just kind of flying by the seat of your pants. You know, you, you don’t really. You don’t really have a thorough understanding until you create a process.

And it’s possible that even this discomfort is what keeps you from creating a process. You don’t want to create a process because subconsciously you know, that you don’t really know what you’re doing and that’s going to explode is that fact that you don’t really have a process, you know, even though when you think you have in your mind, You don’t really have one, but embrace this right.

Embrace this. I know it’s a little bit uncomfortable, but if you embrace it and create a process, anyway, the, the act of creating the process will help you think through how and why you do your work, the way that you do, you can improve it that way you can’t improve a process that you haven’t written down.

And to add onto what Dan was saying, you know, in response to the question, what are some of the greatest problems we see in areas where we don’t have a process is we feel, we feel well, I’ll speak for myself, like a little bit trapped, a little bit stuck. Like we, we can’t free ourselves up. We have all of these other things we want to do, and we want to delegate certain tasks, but when the tasks you want to delegate, don’t have good processes associated with them.

You can’t free yourself up. You are doomed to continue doing the thing that you want to delegate until you make a thorough process for it. So think about it that way, like that might motivate you to create processes for things that maybe you don’t want to do that. That’s another good way to think about it.

If, if you know, earlier I had said the first process you might want to make is that. The thing that produces the highest value. That makes a lot of sense, but maybe another way to think of it is make a process for the thing you hate doing the most, the thing you like doing the least, because then you can delegate that thing and believe it or not, there are people out there who love to do the things that you hate to do.

Maybe you don’t like taxes. There’s people who are really good at taxes. Maybe you don’t like accounting. There’s people who are really good at accounting. Maybe you don’t like editing your videos. There are people who are really good at editing your videos or writing your newsletter. Peop there are, there’s always someone who loves doing the thing that you hate, believe it or not.

So if you create a process for that, you can delegate it. And that’s fantastic. So let’s talk about how to create a process you’re sold on this idea of making processes. Okay. I know I need to make them. Then I can repeat success, then I can avoid failure. Then I can delegate. And I understand I don’t have a process unless it’s written down.

How do I create a process so I can free myself up in my business. All you need to do to create a process is write down a list of steps. Assume someone knows nothing. And even your future self, if it’s just you and your business, and you don’t have employees. You still want to create processes, create processes for yourself, for your future self.

Who’s going to come back and do this a week or a month or a year later, or who wants to delegate it in the future. So assume that future person, whether it’s you or someone calls knows nothing, meaning you need to be very clear, not like do the thing. And you know, that’d be very clear. So start at the very beginning.

This is, this is where we write down a list of steps. All the processes is a list of steps, like a bullet list, just in any writing app, you have start at the very beginning. Now what happens before the very beginning? Okay. That’s actually the beginning. So most likely you started somewhere slightly in the middle.

We need to back up a little bit. What’s the context. What starts before that, that is where you begin your process processes should be written in a way that not only you can remember, but also someone with zero knowledge of what you do can come in and perform the task to, to the same level of quality.

Someone with zero knowledge can come in and do this thing. That is the level of detail to which you should be writing down these steps. Explain very clearly, very simply and break it down. Don’t assume any prior knowledge, someone else needs to be able to follow your process without you being there and without them having any experience.

So there’s three things that a process needs. Three things, every, every task in your process. These, these three things, an assignee, a deadline, and a dependency. Every task in your process needs three things, an assignee, a deadline, and a dependency. What is an assignee? And assignee is a person who is responsible for this task.

It is a singular person, never assign multiple people to a single task. Someone needs to be solely responsible. If there are multiple people. Break it up into multiple tasks and assign those tasks to individual people. The second thing, every task needs is a deadline by when does this need to be done?

Never create a process task without a deadline tasks without deadlines never get done. So here’s a bad example. Hey, make sure you get this thing done. Here’s a good example, complete this by end of day tomorrow. Now, when you’re creating a process, sometimes those dates are relative, right? So you might say this is due.

one day before the final due date, this is due one day after the start date, you know, they can, there can be relative deadlines, but every task needs a deadline. Third thing, every task needs is a dependency. What is the dependency? It means this task is dependent upon the completion of this other task, what needs to be completed before in order to be able to do this task.

And when you use process dependencies the right way, you rely on us system rather than having a person whose job is project management. So, you know, it’s not to say you never need managers and managers have no value. It’s not to say that, but. A lot of people and a lot of businesses rely too heavily on managers.

When what they could do is rely more heavily on well-built processes. And so part of what makes processes fall apart and requires managers to keep things running is the fact that they are weak on dependencies. It is not clear what task needs to be completed before doing this task. And it’s not clear what test needs to be completed after.

Doing this task. You want this, this chain, right? This very tightly, her linked chain of tasks that create a process, this happens. And then this happens, and this can’t happen until this happens, right. It just, it cascades. It’s, it’s a beautiful thing. When you create a process with tasks that have these three things and assignee, a deadline and a dependency.

Dan: [00:22:51] So you need three things. Some of them feel a little bit artificial. Like there are some tasks where it’s like, does this really have a deadline? So do you just pick arbitrarily or how, how do you determine same with dependencies? There are probably, you might have a point in the process where there’s five tasks and.

You could do them in any order, they just all need to get done. So how do you handle stuff like that?

Sean: [00:23:17] Putting some value in the chat. Right, right. In writing some of my notes in the chat for people so they can follow along. so ask it again. I got distracted. Sometimes the show would be like that. Dan.

Dan: [00:23:34] For adding value to the chat without getting distracted. so you’ve got assignees and that’s pretty straightforward. Someone’s got to do the work. So pick someone to do it. Our deadlines and dependencies is the same. Like, can they be arbitrary because sometimes you’ve, you know, like, like a deadline as the name implies is usually usually means if this thing doesn’t get done by this date.

Something bad happens or like, if it doesn’t get done by this date, it doesn’t matter if it gets done it’s too late. Right. but lots of tasks aren’t strictly like that they just kind of need to get done. Or maybe the project has an overall deadline. And similarly for dependencies, you might have five tasks that they all need to get done, but you kind of do them in any order.

So how do you handle that? Do you just assign these things arbitrarily or do you not bother.

Sean: [00:24:22] That’s a good question. So the, the most robust version of this is what you described, where a task not completed by a deadline creates disastrous results, meaning things fall apart. you know, if it’s say it’s like a payroll process, if you didn’t follow the payroll process, in accordance with the deadline, peop employees don’t get paid.

That’s a disastrous result. If you don’t follow a client deliverables process, according to the deadline, the client doesn’t receive their deliverables for which they are contractually. the word entitled. Thank you. and that, so that’s disastrous, right? Because it’s in the contract and that’s a breach of contract and it’s all kinds of issues.

Right. So, That’s the most powerful, right? Where something actually falls apart. The more real the deadline, the better, because it creates intrinsic motivation, right? Like, if things fall apart and you are responsible for things having fallen apart, then you’re in trouble, right. That’s not a good place to be for.

Whoever’s paying your paycheck, whether it’s your boss or the client or whatever. Now, with that said, In, in a, in a bigger, more zoomed out picture, you might have tasks within a process that lead eventually to some kind of end result the completion of, of the project. But in the middle, the deadlines, those tasks have, can feel a little bit malleable, a little bit arbitrary, like, eh, you know, I realize it needs to get done at some point, but if it doesn’t get done tomorrow, It’s not like things really fall apart.

It’s not like I really lose my job. It’s not like I don’t get paid or the client, you know, we can make it up at some point that’s that’s dangerous. So I would say two things. One is we are talking today in the context of creating processes. So, this is not like just random tasks, like, Oh, I need to get this done.

And I should probably respond to this person. And I should probably file this form, you know? And like, I’ll do this tomorrow. I’ll set a deadline of tomorrow. That sounds hopeful. That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking, I’m not talking about random tasks today. I’m talking about process driven tasks, the tasks inside of a process.

So when you’re defining the deadline for a task inside a process, It should be relative to an actual deadline that create some kind of consequence. Like the blog post is late. The podcast is late. The newsletter is late. The client doesn’t receive the thing on time for which they’re contractually entitled some kind of real deadline.

And you work backwards well. Well, the deliverables need to be done the day before so we can send them the day they’re due and if those need to be done, then these other things need to happen three days before and four days before and five days before. So they’re very real deadlines. Does that, does that answer the question?

Dan: [00:27:39] I suppose it does. Yeah.

Sean: [00:27:42] to poke, poke at it more. If it doesn’t.

Dan: [00:27:43] well, working backwards from a, like a real deadline, like a project deadline works, but I’m just thinking if you have a bunch of tasks in the middle of a process, how do you like what’s the right way to assign them deadlines? Do you just flip a coin or what are some of the

Sean: [00:27:58] you’re saying. I see what you’re saying. Well, it’s, it’s always going to be relative to, one of two dates, ultimately the start date and the end date. What’s the difference between a start date and an end date in the context of leading a process for the work you do, they won’t always apply.

Sometimes only a deadline applies sometimes only a start date. Although you should think of a way to add a deadline, but in some cases, both a start date and an end date apply. So what is the start date? Well, an example of a start date is let’s take a process. Well, one of our processes. For creating a batch of content for our clients.

We consider a batch of content to be one week’s worth of clips. We create video clips. That’s the daily content machine. That’s the service we’re talking about in this whole series daily content We turn your weekly show into daily content. So daily video clips, seven days a week, that’s a batch.

We have a process for creating a content batch for a client. Now the start date for us on that type of a process. Is relative to the content due date for the client. The client has a due date for providing content to us so that we’re able to do our editing work. We can’t edit video. You haven’t given us.

So if you don’t send us the content on time, we’re not obligated to send you any deliverables. So let’s assume the client does provide their content on time by the due date. We’ll then we’re able to start on that content the next day. So that’s the start date. Even if you wanted to get ahead, like, Oh, you know what?

I feel like getting really far ahead. So I’m going to work on this stuff. That’s not due for two months. Well, in some cases like the one I just described for us, you can’t do that because the client hasn’t even given you the content for two months from now. So you have a start date and that start date is unlocked by something else.

That’s kind of like when I was talking about how to create a process and I said, start at the beginning. So the beginning for us might be like, okay, well I take the client’s content and I transcribe it and it’s like, Whoa, hang on. I know you think that’s the beginning, but what happens before the beginning?

And you’re like, well, I mean, the client sends me the content and it’s like, aha. Right. That’s actually the beginning. So that’s an example of a start date. The end date is much more obvious. That’s the deadline, that’s the, the deliverables are due. And if it’s beyond that point, then they’re late. So some tasks are relative to the start date.

Other tasks are relative to the end date. So some of your first tasks like transcribe the content, the client provided that would be relative to the start date. Cause the start dates like here you go, it’s unlocked. You are able to begin your work, but at some point in the middle and it can get, you know, it can get interesting, but at some point in the middle.

You’re probably going to start to shift towards having tasks that are relative to the and date is that, does that answer the question?

Dan: [00:31:03] I think it does be because now I’m kind of seeing that there’s almost a balance, right? There are some things you can’t do until a start date, but there are things that need to get done by the end date. And so then the dependencies kind of fill in the gaps because if you, if you here’s a task, that’s due a day before the end date, it relies on you having transcribed the content.

I can move my hands a little further apart. And it relies on you having described transcribed the content. So you can’t start transcribing until after the start date, but you’re going to have to get it done where in here so that you can do this task on time and as you’re building out the process, you’re I know the sounds complicated.

And so I’m trying to use my hands to simplify it. You could, you kind of pick the due dates by moving in two directions. There’s like. There are some tasks where it’s like, what’s the latest that this can get done. And then there are other tasks that are like, well, what’s the earliest that this can get done, such that the downstream things will happen on time.

Sean: [00:32:03] Yeah. Yeah. It’s a little bit of, yeah, it is kind of working from two ends.

Dan: [00:32:09] It’s like a balance. Yeah, it’s a balancing

Sean: [00:32:11] what’s the soonest. I can start on this to have it ready for the other tasks that follow. And what’s the latest that I can work on this. So what you’re going to get is at some point a window of time, Like where, where let’s see if I can get in frame where, where you have like a task that takes a few hours, but you might have three days within which to complete the task.

Right. So you would just have to decide at that point, like, okay, if it’s within three days, you know, I, I feel like I should just put a deadline on it, you know, I should have rather, I should have it relative to the deadline, like four days before the deadline, rather than. Two days after the start date, that’s something you’re going to have to figure out kind of in the middle of your process, but the point being so we don’t get too into the, into the weeds on this is every task needs a deadline, it needs a deadline, and you might figure that out relative to the start date, you might figure it out relative to the end date, but every task needs a deadline.

You want to create this system that, like I said, cascades, every task should unlock the next task. Right. And that’s where the dependencies come in. You can’t complete this task until this one has been done. So it was kind of like a video game where you complete this and you unlock the next level and you unlock the next level and you can proceed.

You can progress. So switching gears a little bit, I would say, don’t wait until you have a team to create processes. You need to create processes for yourself. Now why create processes for yourself? When you don’t have a team, well, one, you can avoid failure and two, you can repeat success, things go wrong.

You can identify where they went, right wrong, fix the problem and prevent that mistake from ever happening again in the future. What type of things, anything you should have a process for uploading a YouTube video. You’ve probably uploaded a YouTube video and forgot to add the thumbnail or forgot to add the tags or forgot to add the description or the end end screen, right.

Anywhere you’ve ever forgotten anything, you should have a process. So that helps you avoid mistakes. So your video goes up and you’re like, you suddenly noticed, or there’s a comment. And it’s like, Hey, you know, there’s no description. You said there would be a link. And you’re like, Oh, I forgot that. Well, don’t just add the description and then move on, because then you’re going to repeat that same mistake in the future, because you don’t have a process.

A process helps you avoid making the same mistakes. So wherever you see a mistake, this is the, this is a mindset thing, Dan, but most people, they make a mistake and they just break down and cry and sit in a puddle of their tears. Or maybe more realistically, they tweet about how terrible their clients are.

They complain, you know, and everyone likes their tweet and they’re like, yeah, clients are terrible. And it’s like, maybe you could have avoided that mistake. Maybe you could have a process for avoiding this. So you get a bad client who doesn’t pay your invoices on time. Yeah. You, you can either tweet and complain and get a bunch of likes or you can improve your processes and get clients who pay you on time and pay you more in the future.

I’ll I’ll take the more money you can take the tears, you know, but I’m assuming people who are tracking with us, they want the money, right? They want to avoid the mistakes. They want a better process. That’s what processes can do for you. They also help you repeat success. So you got, you got super lucky and a project went really well.

A video that you posted on YouTube, you uploaded to YouTube did really well. It went viral. Do it again. Oh, I, I can’t do that again. Just like winning the lottery. It’s pure luck. Well, is it, I mean, granted, there’s a variable of luck for sure, but also videos that tend to go viral, share certain characteristics.

You don’t even know what these characteristics are because you don’t have a process. So what went in to creating that video that, that did really well? Well, you know, I spent like two months researching and writing a really good outline and a script and, you know, did all these nice edits and transitions and animations and added music.

And it’s like, okay, well, what about these other videos that didn’t do really well? Oh, I just kind of like threw those up there. It’s like, all right. are you seeing any patterns here? You know, you ha you have things that go really well. You got that client who just, they were a dream to work with. They paid on time.

They even tipped you. It’s like no one in my industry tips, they just were like, so happy. They tipped me and they’re like, do you want a testimonial video here? I recorded one. And they also referred you to other people. You’re like, this is the best client ever. Well, here’s the problem. You don’t have a process.

So you can’t repeat success. A process helps you avoid mistakes and it helps you repeat success. So you don’t need it team. To justify the creation of processes. Although when you get to the point of having a team processes are that much more valuable because then you have these little building blocks for your business and it’s like, Hey, you handle doing this thing and you handle doing this thing.

And you’ve got these processes that show them how to do the work, something we’ll be talking about in the next part. next week we have our final part of this five part series on building a profitable agency, which is about. Hiring. So we’ll talk about this more, but you don’t want to hire until you have processes for the role you’re hiring for, or are you just going to have a bad time?

It’s it’s going to be difficult and we’ve certainly experienced this. We haven’t done it perfectly, but you ideally want to have processes before you bring on that role. So point of this little section being. You don’t need to have a team for processes to be a good idea for you. But if, and when you get to the point where you want to have a team, if you have processes, you’re ready to go.

Dan: [00:38:17] you’ll need to change your processes anyway, probably, but it’s the same way we talk about writing. You can’t edit what you haven’t written. You’re much better off creating a process now for how you work. And then someday you bring someone else on to do it. And you realize there are holes in the process that you need to fix while that’s great.

It’s not that hard to fix those holes, but if you try to bring someone on and you just don’t have anything. Now. Yeah, you’re going to have a, you’re going to have a real hard time with that. I wanted to, I was thinking of one other thing relating to like dealing with mistakes. It is easy to internalize mistakes and take them personally.

And one of the nice things about, having a process and we always use the phrase patch the process, right? Like if something goes wrong. Okay, good. You found a hole in the process that also helps you,

Sean: [00:39:07] Can I dwell on

Dan: [00:39:08] on another level that you

Sean: [00:39:10] Something went wrong. Good. Wait, what? That doesn’t even make sense. Well, it, it, it does because you, if we’re sticking with like the ship analogy, you found a hole in your ship, a leak. In the ship. That’s not a good thing. And you want to be aware of problems like that. So you can patch the hole, patch the hole in the process.

You think you want to be unaware because ignorance is bliss until the ship goes down and it’s too late. So you’re, you’re wanting to be like, ah, don’t tell me about the leaks. I don’t want to know about the holes because that’s not fun. Well, what’s also not fun is in two hours, the ship goes down. So just think of like, Oh a little bit into the future and realize if you keep repeating these failures, it’s going to be bad news.

And so if you identify a problem, the reason it’s good is because you’ve, you’ve identified it now, you know, you’re aware you can patch the process, you can prevent that problem from happening again. And so it’s, it’s even more important just to really crystallize this. We are not just. Patching the hole.

We are patching the process, right? So you identify a problem. Here’s an example of a problem. Sorry to hijack all I’ll hand it right back to you. Dan, you identify a problem. Here’s an example. We, We have clips that we provide to our clients. And one of them pointed out that, you know, on certain platforms, the first frame, if someone doesn’t have like a good internet connection or like the video didn’t autoplay or something, the first frame basically acts as a still, and it can kind of like freeze in the feed.

And if the first frame is a very unflattering. Facial expression, you know, it can be kind of awkward. And so they’re like, you know, this one clip on Wednesday had this issue. Can you fix it? Okay, well, we could rerender that clip and adjust the frame to be a little bit less awkward of a facial expression, send it back and move on.

But the reason that wouldn’t be sufficient is because then the problem is just going to happen again. So when you identify a problem, don’t just fix that instance of the problem. Patch the process, which you can only do if you’ve written this down patch, the process by which you generated that result so that you don’t generate the same problematic result in the future.

Dan: [00:41:50] Yeah, well, I want to, I want to sit with this mistake thing for just another second. Cause Josh and the chat, provided a real good summary. He said, avoid mistakes and repeat success, but I got to call him out a little bit. Because I think that this is what’s at the heart of it. Sean, where people go, you know, I don’t want to know about the holes.

Well, it’s because you’re operating from a mindset that said, as I should not make mistakes, there should not be problems. Mistakes shouldn’t happen. And in intrinsically what you’re saying is if they do it’s cause I’m bad, I’m not good enough.

Sean: [00:42:23] I’m a failure.

Dan: [00:42:24] I’m a failure. Exactly. Whereas the, it is, it is much better and more realistic to realize mistakes.

Are inevitable problems will always happen always. So it’s not avoid mistakes. It’s you’re going to make the mistakes avoid making you always say the shot, avoid making the same mistake twice. That’s what the process helps you

Sean: [00:42:46] can I monologue on it?

Dan: [00:42:49] please do bring it.

Sean: [00:42:51] Make new mistakes. Make new mistakes. Everyone’s trying to avoid making mistakes because they’re, they’re not wanting to feel like a failure. I don’t want to make any mistakes, please, please, please. I don’t want to mess up. Oh, I messed up. I’m a failure.

I’m a failure. No, no, you’re not making mistakes is good. I like to, I like to say, make new mistakes because it helps you learn. When you make a mistake, you want to patch the process. The process is the way that you do your work. It’s a list of steps that you’ve written down. Ideally, hopefully you have a process for what you do, because if you have a process, you can improve it.

You can patch the holes in your process that generated those mistakes, thus, avoiding making those same mistakes in the future. That’s what you want to avoid is making the same mistake twice. Don’t make the same mistake twice. The way you avoid making the same mistake twice is by patching the holes in your process.

Every time you identify a problem, every time you make a mistake, say good, good, because you’ve identified a hole in your process. It’s like a leaking ship. You know, you don’t, you don’t want holes in the ship. You want to patch the hole and you want to, you want to update the process so that you don’t. You know, you know, go through the waters where it’s too shallow and you, you make another hole in the ship, right?

You want to patch the process. So don’t make the same mistake twice, but that does not mean don’t make mistakes, make new mistakes, free yourself up to make mistakes. See that as a good thing, because you’re identifying problems that you can avoid in the future. So we have a whole episode. Maybe you can find this one, Dan, it’s all about making new mistakes and how.

You know, I, I want to empower my team to make mistakes for me. Like, like, I want you to make mistakes on my behalf because it’s not as if I were to do the work that you’re doing, that I wouldn’t make mistakes. Cause I’m somehow infallible. That’s not true. I would make the same mistakes you’re making. I’m just outsourcing the making of my mistakes.

So I don’t see mistakes as a problem. I see it as a way to identify holes in the process. So I’m essentially outsourcing the identification of holes in our process to you, for instance, or to anyone else on the team like, Hey, I am empowering you. Your job is to go forth and make mistakes. Make new mistakes.

Don’t repeat the same mistake twice. Then we have an actual problem.

Dan: [00:45:29] Yeah, but I mean, this is something I need to hear, so I’m glad you’re doing it on the podcast because I. Despite what I said before, I’m as bad at this as, as anybody where I don’t want to make mistakes. When I make mistakes, I feel bad about myself, but it’s an important context to put it in. I mean, in my case, and, and you, the listener, you might find yourself in the same position.

Like I’m doing a lot of stuff. I haven’t done before, or I haven’t done very much, or I don’t have expertise at like, I, I like the notion that expertise is basically just, you’ve like you’ve made all the mistakes. Like when you’re an expert in an area, it just means that you’ve seen all the problems and you’ve screwed all the things up that there are to screw up, you know, like that’s how you get good at something.

So you shouldn’t be afraid of making mistakes.

Sean: [00:46:12] The thing, you know, I’m, I’m infamous for liking to throw people in the deep end. Like that’s, that’s how I, that’s how I have people learn. I’m like here, you got this, like, Like, like host the show, do the thing, try it out. You know, I just think it’s, I think it’s faster. I think we learn faster by doing the thing and making the mistakes, but that’s kind of the key mindset piece of it.

Like the reason people are so resistant to that, like, like don’t throw me in the deep end. I haven’t done this before. Therefore when I do it, I will do it in perfectly and I will make mistakes, which is the ultimate sin. And that’s where you have to reframe your mentality is that making mistakes is not a problem.

It’s how we learn. It is literally the process by which we learn and have learned from a young age it’s by doing things the wrong way. It’s by starting to ride the bike and the bike falls over and it’s by walking and falling over it’s by pronouncing words, incorrectly getting correct corrected and learning.

That’s that’s how we get better at things. And it’s a faster way of improving and learning fan, just head knowledge and listening to someone else, tell you what you should do. Like you’ve got to get in there and do the thing, but, but it’s, it’s this fear of doing the thing in perfectly or doing the thing wrong.

Or making a mistake that really holds us back. So that’s why I kind of liked the, the deep end auction, because it’s like, you’re appearing over in, into the swimming hole and you’re like, Ooh, it’s a good 10, 12 feet down. you know, what does that three or four meters for our non-American friends, is like, I don’t, I don’t know if I want to jump down there.

You know, what if I, what if this, what if that, what if I don’t do it right. And it’s like, just, just do it and do it imperfectly. Do it incorrectly the first time. It’s okay. You’re going to learn from it. You’re going to get better.

Dan: [00:48:20] Well, and there’s so many things in life where the pool is a good analogy, right? The fear about jumping into the deep end is you might. Drown, she might, you might, you might not make it back from that mistake, but most, most mistakes in life, especially in work and things like that are not the end of the line, but we kind of, we treat them all

Sean: [00:48:41] a team of people on the sidelines with like flotation devices and a lifeguard and everyone’s cheering you on. And it’s like, instead of just here, keep, keep watching us jump into the swimming hole. you do it and do it in perfectly and, and flounder around a little bit and it, yeah, it’s going to be scary cause like, Oh, I didn’t do it.

Right. And I messed up and what if I can’t swim back to the edge and, and back to the banks, but it’s like, even if you can’t, we’ll jump in and save you like, and we’ll tell you, you know, just, just tread water or like, you know, head to this side, like we can give you guidance. And we can also jump in and take over and give you a flotation device if you need it.

But it’s just such a faster way to learn. It’s just a, it’s a mentality of like allowing yourself, giving yourself permission to make new mistakes.

Dan: [00:49:39] It is a mentality, but the last piece, and then, there, there’s a, we got an interesting point here in the outline. I want you to talk about, but there’s you need that support too, right? Like that’s the other part of it is, is actually, you know, having the mentality that it’s okay to make mistakes, but then also, especially when you’re.

Like inside of a business, like when you’re working for someone else, you need to feel that support. And so to flip that around, you’re the person right now processes, and someday you’re going to get other people to carry out those process processes. So we’ll, we’re going to talk about this delegation a little later in this show, but also in our next episode, because it’s all about hiring.

I think we should touch on that too. About just like how important it is to like. You start off as the person who does the thing, you create the processes. Now you hire people. Now you have to create a culture where it’s okay for those people to make mistakes, you know, like follow the process, make the mistakes patch, the process.

You have to do that. Otherwise you end up with this team of people who are terrified to do anything.

Sean: [00:50:40] It’s a very good point. How do you recommend, you know, B being on the receiving end of like coming into, hopefully what is the culture where that’s encouraged? how do you recommend one creates a culture? In which people don’t see making mistakes as the ultimate sin and feel free to pull from both ends, like thinking in terms of what we have done well, and then also thinking in terms of what we have not done well, and what would have helped you feel better?

Dan: [00:51:19] I think, what we, what we do well and what we could do even better. That’s how I’m, that’s how I’m going to cushion that. Is, I know for me, like I, I’m going to err on the side of internalizing and I’m going to err on the side of clamming up. Cause that tends to be how I communicate, how I communicate or how I don’t communicate.

so I’m gonna do things wrong. I feel like I’m failing and I need like feedback coming down the line to be like, you’re not sure failing. This is okay. And I can go seek that out. I think it’s it’s even better. Yeah. If you have a system in which that sort of stuff is. Proactive instead of reactive. So that like when you bring someone on, they feel like you’re setting them up for success.

I think that’s, that’s the biggest thing. It comes down to, you want to feel like you’ve been set up for success and not. Well, and not failure. And the, the strength of your processes, I think is what helps like this. This is what I’ve noticed is like when, when, where we have, where we have really strong processes, I feel like we’ve set people up for success and where we’re still working on making some of our processes better.

I feel like that has a downstream impact on the people that we want to carry those processes out.

Sean: [00:52:35] It’s a very good point. Yeah. Over-communicating being proactive in communication about, How someone is not essentially not failing, not only not failing, but actually succeeding by making mistakes. Hey, you doing this thing now, making mistakes as you go, you are succeeding. Like this is actually the process, like, like the process is to first do the thing in perfectly.

And make mistakes and then gradually improve and do it better. That actually is the process. So what might feel like failure right now, which is, you know, according to your experience, doing something and perfectly making these mistakes, you are actually succeeding. Like it’s, it’s actually a part of the bigger process by which you succeed.

And so it’s, it’s just that encouragement of. Hey, you’re you’re doing it right. Even while you’re doing it wrong. Does that make sense?

Dan: [00:53:46] Yeah, definitely. Well, I think, especially that, yeah.

Sean: [00:53:50] in the micro you’re it’s you want to, you want to learn how to jump over a concrete barrier with a skateboard, right? So like you’ve got this, you know, sizable height that you need to clear.

So you’ve got to learn how to get that skateboard up off the ground. So, you know, if you’re, if you’re really brave, you might just go right at it. Having never ridden a skateboard ever before in your life. And just kind of like do something with your legs and hope that like magically you’ll fly over this, this concrete barrier.

but you’re just going to Ram into a thing and the skateboard isn’t going to come up off the ground at all. It’s probably not best to go in with zero experience, zero guidance, zero tips or suggestions. So maybe you watch some other people do it and they show you how to do it. And they show you where to, where to place your feet and how, how much momentum and speed to gather before you try and clear this concrete barrier.

And then how to shift your feet at the moment where you need to Ali over this concrete barrier. And they say, look. It’s not going to happen the first time you try. So before you just go straight for the concrete barrier, let’s just stand right here and see if you can Ali. So just go ahead and try. And the first time you try you, you kind of slide your feet along the rough grip of the skateboard deck, and it just kinda doesn’t really go anywhere.

It doesn’t do anything. And they say, well, you know, try positioning your feet this way and push this foot down while you slide the other foot and then push that one down and then your back wheel will come off at the same time. You’ll get a little bit of clearance. Do you try that? And, and the wheels come, you know, a couple of inches off the ground and it’s like, okay, cool progress.

Right. And then, so you’re learning, but at some point there’s the throwing in the deep end that I like to do, which is like, okay, have a shot at the concrete barrier. Now you’re probably not going to clear it. You’re probably gonna, you know, the skateboard is just going to hit the concrete barrier and you’re not going to go over, but try it out anyway.

Like that’s, that’s the experience you want to get the experience. You don’t want to build up that confidence, which comes from the experience. So you, you go at this concrete barrier and you, you have the, the smallest little Ollie and the skateboard just slams into the concrete barrier. You failed. I mean, ultimately you didn’t do it the right way because the right way would have you clearing the concrete barrier with no issue.

So you failed, but that’s part of the process. The process is try this and fail at it and then adjust and try and fail at it and then adjust. And you do that a bunch of times before ultimately you’re able to clear the concrete barrier. And so in the process of succeeding, You’re going to do it wrong, but by doing it wrong in the process of succeeding, you’re doing it right?

Cause if one of the steps is try this and fail and then learn from it and adjust then failing is what you’re supposed to be doing. But to your point, Dan, like you have to hear this message. You have to hear this message from whoever is empowering you to do the thing and it’s gotta be proactive. It can’t come only when the person is like, Am I doing this right?

Am I a failure? Because they’re probably not going to ask those questions. It’s already painful enough for them to wrestle with the feelings of failure. They’re not gonna want to agitate that pain further for themselves. By saying, am I a failure? Because it’s like, you already feel like, you know, the answer, like you don’t even want to think about it anymore.

So if you’re waiting until your, your employees or your team members are asking you if they’re doing it the right way and asking you if this mistake or failure is problematic, not only is it too late, but it’s very likely, they’re never going to ask you those things. So you do have to over communicate and over communicate over communicate.

Hey. You’re doing this, right? So like, I’m, I’m learning through this conversation, Dan, like, and I know these things too, but like, I need to do a better job of communicating. I need to over communicate like, Hey, I know this is tough. I know it feels like things are falling through the cracks and you know, it’s difficult, but like you’re doing a great job.

Dan: [00:58:21] Yeah, I’m taking the exact same lesson away there, Sean. Cause this is the thing like we’re, this works in both directions. Like as the employee, you want to be one way, but we’re also talking about this from the perspective of building an agency. And so, so this is a very important thing to think about. And, and again, we’re gonna, this is going to be like the, core of the next show.

And we talk about bringing people on, but that’s a, this is, you know, this is kind of the side trail from just creating the processes. But like, you know, once you’re. The point of creating the processes is ultimately to have other people carry them out, and this is what you need in order to do that successfully.

So I’m also really glad that we got a glimpse at your secrets, previous life as a professional skateboarder, which you tried, you tried not to let on, but no, I think we, I think we’re, we’re all suspicious

Sean: [00:59:10] Layers of an onion. Angel says

Dan: [00:59:14] the seven 20.

Sean: [00:59:14] angels angel said in the chat says that, I mean, you made skateboarding sound easy, but yeah, you’re going to fall no matter what. It’s very true. Like if you want to be a successful skate Porter, you’re going to fall a lot. You’re going to fail a lot. So what does that say about the mentality and the mindset?

I mean, essentially, and this would serve you well anywhere. You’ve got to get good at failing. Like you have to not only get comfortable with it, but just. Understand that it’s a part of the, you know, it’s, it’s a cliche, but it’s like, you know, there’s going to be failures along the path to success, but it’s true.

It’s true. So you need to get good at failure and realize this is not a reflection of, of who I am. This is not like you, your identity is that of a failure. It’s just. The process by which you succeed. So get good at failure, get unemotional about making mistakes that would serve you really well. Get unemotional about making new mistakes and get passionate about making new mistakes, because that means you’re learning.

You’re progressing. You’re, you’re improving. You’re you’re moving forward. If you’re not making mistakes, you’re probably staying too safe and you’re not growing at all. You’re just, you’re just stuck in one place. You know, you’re stagnant. You want to be making new mistakes. This is differentiated from making the same mistake twice.

You don’t want to make the same mistake twice, because that means you didn’t learn from your mistakes. But that’s how we learn. We learn from making mistakes. So don’t see that as an enemy, the best thing you can do is get emotional about making new mistakes. So I want to talk about four questions to ask when creating processes.

Four questions to ask when you create a process. So you’re sold on the idea of creating processes. So you can avoid failure, improve the way you do things streamlined, save time and repeat success processes allow you to delegate. You can grow a team. It’s a beautiful thing, but you should do it even when it’s just.

Yourself, even when you’re just by yourself, anything you do more than once you want to automate it in a way to automate things is by creating processes, you don’t have a process unless it’s written down. You don’t have a process unless it’s written down. If you have an idea of a way you do things in your head, you do not have a process.

Unless it’s written down four questions to ask when creating a process. Number one, where do processes live? Number two, who creates processes? Number three, when should processes be created? And number four, how are the processes created? Where do they live? Project management system, Dropbox, Google docs. You need a single place who creates them, probably you, but ideally everyone.

You want a culture where people create processes for the things they do as they move forward. when should they be created, ideally as you go. So you don’t build up all of this debt, you know, a technical debt process debt, where you have to go create processes for a ton of things. How are they created?

Are they written only? Are they recorded? Is it screencasts? Are they screenshots? What is your criteria? You have to define all of those things. Any thoughts on those four questions, Dan?

Dan: [01:02:40] Oh, that was a, that was just a lot.

Sean: [01:02:43] I’m I’m trying to try to make the clip version, but then we can also unpack it here.

Dan: [01:02:48] That’s the value of doing a whole podcast after all

Sean: [01:02:50] Yeah. Maybe let’s do one at a time where due process is live.

Dan: [01:02:56] the, the thing about everyone. The thing about there being like a single place is that this gets confusing real fast, especially if you have multiple versions of things, cause process has changed over time. Right. Like this might be something we, we touch on. It’s it’s it can be challenging once you make the process to keep the process up to date as it changes.

And so if you don’t have a place where everyone knows is the one true source, like, like what is the one true version of this process? And that’s going to be, you know, whether it’s a spreadsheet or a Google doc or a project inside a project management system, everyone needs to know if you need the canonical source.

Find it here. And then at the very least, you know, it’s still gonna be challenging to keep that up to date, but at least you only have to keep it up to date in one spot.

Sean: [01:03:42] What we’re, implicitly touch. Hang on here. Dan is a process for creating processes. I don’t think I could possibly get more excited about anything else in life. my brain is exploding.

Dan: [01:04:01] Joshua asked about this awhile ago in the chat. So you’re welcome, Joshua. Here it is. He was like, is there a process for creating processes? And I’m sitting there thinking, Oh, just you wait, just, you wait.

Sean: [01:04:11] Well, let’s examine why you would want to create a process. For creating processes, because if you don’t have a process for creating processes, then your processes go all over the place. I was watching an episode of the office where, Michael Scott, the manager, he’s terrible, terrible manager, just horrible.

he suddenly decided to just kind of like declare war between the sales and the accounting departments. And he just runs over to the accounting department where there’s three accountants. They’ve got all their papers and stuff. You know, it’s a less digital era and he just starts going, ah, and throwing around all their papers.

Just kind of making it rain with papers, mixing up everything between the three of them, just an absolute nightmare. But that is what your processes look like when you’re creating them haphazardly the process for, for creating processes. Now I’m not gonna say stay on this too long. I don’t want to get too silly with it here, but.

You need a single place where processes live. It can’t just be some processes are in these text documents on my computer. Only some processes are in these Dropbox folders that some people have access to. Some processes are in Google docs. Some are in Slack. You know, you saved that message, right? I told you to save it as are in the project management system.

This doesn’t work. Everyone needs to know where the, this is go. You know, in our case we have an internal, Wiki or knowledge base of sorts, you know, we call it team documentation. And those those entries, they, they often contain, sometimes they’re written, but they often contain videos like screencast recordings, those videos.

In our case, we usually host them on Wistia in our, our video hosting account. but sometimes what can happen is like I’ve recorded a thing and it’s on my hard drive. And no one else can get to it, you know? So I need to upload that to Wistia. And then I usually have someone create a team documentation that embeds that Wistia video, but admittedly,  our process for creating processes is, is weak.

and in fact, no, let’s, let’s do this a little better. Damn. We’ll get really transparent. We don’t have a process for creating processes as much as I like, as much as I like the idea of it. I have to abide by my own rules. We don’t have, we don’t have it written down. Where is the process for creating processes?

Point me to the documentation doesn’t exist. It’s in our heads. So this is why sometimes things fall apart because. We’ll create a piece of documentation and then, Oh, it got uploaded to Wistia, but it’s not in the docs. So like this person is trying to find it and it’s like, Oh, didn’t you do this thing?

And so it does fall apart at times. So the reason you want a process for this is so that when you document your work, it ends up in the right place and everyone can find it including you in the future. So don’t get too attracted. If you don’t have a team, this applies to you as well. You need to know where your own processes are.

So you can find them in the future.

Dan: [01:07:24] This is true. You’re just making me think of the folder of screencasts. I created weeks ago that I haven’t put on the team documentation

Sean: [01:07:31] Joshua says, but what’s your process for creating processes for creating processes? You joke, but I’m Sean McCabe. So I have it, and it is in hiring bootcamp. So Joshua you’re a member. You already have access to hiring bootcamp in the vault. That was like a three day. A crash course, a series all about creating processes, hiring delegating.

And so my process for creating processes for creating processes is in hiring bootcamp. All right, Dan, get us back on track back on

Dan: [01:08:06] I would say it’s, it’s not easy. I think we’re ready to move on to the next class. Which was who creates the processes. And you said, you know, probably you as in the person running the show, but ideally everyone. So this is like a, like a culture of process creation. So what’s the process for creating the process creation culture.

Sean: [01:08:26] let’s not, I mean, you, you, you want to, you want to create processes, but you also want to create an environment where other people do that. And so the, I know we’re being a little bit silly, but the reason you want a process for creating processes is not just so they end up in the right single place where everyone, including you can find them in the future.

But also, so everyone knows when they should create a process. Everyone needs to know it. Shouldn’t just be like, Oh, Hey, will you make a process for that? Will you make it actually needs to be defined? And as I get really deep into this, you know, I start to notice all the areas in which we don’t have this well implemented.

You know, it is a little bit of like, Oh, we should do that. Or like, Hey, will you make this really? Even that should be streamlined. but let’s, I have in a little bit, after we get through these four, I’m going to talk about when you should create a process. And so I’m, I actually have a list that’s like create a process if this or this or this, we’re going to go through that list, which you can use for yourself, but you could also use, and I should use for my team because if I, you know, this is essentially to be fair, damn.

This is a process for creating processes and it is written down. So I didn’t give myself enough credit. I do have it. We just need to implement it better, but this list of questions that you can ask yourself, anyone on the team can ask themselves and know, you know what? I should create a process for this.

So we just need a better like cascading list of tasks, which is when you realize you should create a process. This is when and how you do it and when it’s due and all of those things. Right. But, okay. Let’s get through the rest of these. We’ve got, when should processes be created, and we’ve talked about that a little more in detail later, but just to touch on it, creating processes is going to take some of your time.

And that time is taken away from doing the actual work. Like I, I F I fully acknowledged this. It’s an investment in the future and this can feel really difficult. And so if you’ve made it this far into the episode, you know, I applaud you, especially if you, if you feel a little bit overwhelmed by the work itself and it’s like, I’m, I’m struggling to do the work itself, let alone create processes for doing the work.

I mean, this is really, it’s really overwhelming Sean. Like when, who has the time to create processes, it kind of feels like a luxury. And it makes sense. And in a sense, I, you know, I have to, I have to concede it is a little bit of a luxury in the sense of that. It is an investment in the future. So, you know, I always say this, like this phrase, you have to earn the right to play the long game, because that had such a huge impact on me.

And I was always long game, but it’s like, well, If you want to be around, you’ve got to cover the short term. You got it. You got to get the actual work done. You’ve got client obligations, you’ve got whatever else. Right. You got to get the actual work done. So you’re not always in a place where you can invest.

Sometimes you have to cover the short term. So let’s contextualize processes in the way they should be. Contextualized processes are an investment in the longterm now. Longterm is relative. It’s probably more like short, medium term, you know, but longterm as well. So you don’t want to put them off for forever, but let’s still acknowledge that sometimes you need to do the work to pay the bills to stay in business.

So I want to give you permission to not create processes. If you need to finish doing the work right now to stay in business. Because if you don’t do the things, you know, granted you don’t have processes for them right now. I understand you’re flying by the seat of her pants. Sometimes it’d be like that.

Sometimes you just have to do the work and get paid and stay alive to fight another day and then slowly get traction and get ahead and pay off the debts and build up the cash flow. Like. That’s just life. That’s just business. That’s just reality. So I want to give you permission to focus on that. If you need to don’t, don’t distract yourself with creating processes.

If you’re just trying to survive. And if taking a few hours to document processes is going to be the difference between your business dying or staying alive.

Dan: [01:13:10] That seems like such obvious advice. I guess it is easy to feel caught on a hamster wheel though, of like always I’m always three hours away from going out of business. How can I ever get out of this to create processes? Where, where does that margin come from?

Sean: [01:13:26] Well, Hey, that’s actually a really good, that’s it? That’s a good question because there’s creative things you can do, like. Don’t don’t play on hard mode. Ask yourself what would this look like if it were easy, seriously, ask yourself that. And I know I’ve talked about it. I, I put out clips and stuff on the difference between thinking about something and thinking through something to a conclusion, most people think about an on and around and not through.

It’s not productive. So. I want you to think through this, like actually set aside 30 minutes, set aside an hour, or sit in your bean bag. 499 episodes in one episode shy of 500 episodes. And I’ve mentioned beanbag for seven years. So I know at this point you have a beanbag. So you’re going to sit in your bean bag.

What’s wrong, Dan, you’re going to sit in your bean bag and set, set aside 30 minutes to 60 minutes to think about this. What, what are you thinking about? What are we even talking about? What would it look like if it were easy, really genuinely scheduled time to think about that. You’ll be surprised at what you come up with, but let me give you some quick wins.

Here’s a simple example. We’ve talked about this earlier in the series. If you have existing clients for whom you provide a monthly ongoing service, even if you have a contract with them for a certain term, ask them if they want to pay up front for a discount. You know, I always say full price or free don’t don’t discount, but I also say the only exception is rewarding loyalty.

So there is a time and a place for a discount, and that is to reward loyalty. you don’t want to punish loyal buyers. So the way most people employ discounts is such that they launch a thing. A bunch of people buy it. Then they lower the price, which is kind of a big screw you to the loyal buyers who bought first.

You don’t want to do that. But discounting can be a way to reward loyalty. So if someone’s going to stick for you, stick with you for a long time, you can give them a discount to reward their loyalty. Now, if you’re feeling like I can’t set aside time to create processes, to get ahead, to have more time to do things like creating processes, what you can do is offer your clients a discount for paying for service upfront.

Maybe you’re just going month to month with them on something. This, this could apply to products as well. Maybe have a products business, you sell products, they buy a product. They buy another product. Think in terms of bulk think in terms of front-loading cashflow. So give them a little discount I’m paying for the next six months upfront.

Boom, you got cash in the bank that cash gets you out of scarcity mindset affords you the time and energy and focus to create processes that free you up in the longterm. Now you can think a little bit longer term, so there’s, there’s just a free idea for you. so let’s say you were in the context of when should processes be created.

Let’s say you’re in a place where you can invest in the longterm, meaning you have time to create some processes, have a deadline for creating processes. All of this stuff applies to itself. When are you ever going to create these processes? The answer is never tasks without a deadline. Never get done.

Tasks, including create a process for such and such thing that has no deadline will never be made. You’ll never create that process. You will never create a process unless you have a deadline for creating that process. Sometimes you get a nice little natural deadline, like, okay. We decided to hire a person in a month and we don’t have a process for them, so, okay.

We better make this process before they get on. That’s a nice natural deadline. but you have to find a way to make one for yourself. Find a way to make it real. Last thing of the four, before we get to the questions that you can ask yourself, how are the processes created? Are they written down? Are they filmed?

Are they recorded? Is it a screencast? Is it a screenshot? This is very simple. Don’t overcomplicate this. Just decide for yourself essentially. What’s the process for creating the process in what form should you document the process? I love written because it’s just so easily. Parsable in the future. It’s like, I know most of this by memory, but there’s this one part.

Where I can’t remember, do I do this or that? And if it’s only a video and it’s not transcribed or whatever, then it’s like, ah, I’ve got to watch this 32 minute process video and somewhere, I think it was a third of the way through, maybe it was two thirds. That’s a lot of time wasted. And so if you have this written, you can just go right to the point.

So I love written, but that’s not to say that video is not useful because it certainly is. If you’re trying to teach someone how to. You know, in our case, produce video, render clips, animate different aspect ratios. Trying to describe that in written form only would be hell, I mean, you, you want screencasts, you know, but ideally I would say that the fastest way to do this is to record your screen, do the thing.

And here’s, here’s a little tip, a little sidebar, instead of thinking, I need to set aside time to create a process. Don’t think that way. Just think the next time I do this thing, I was already going to do. I’m going to record myself doing it and create a process. That’s the best way now, is that going to be the very best, most streamlined, polished, edited, like a course level quality process?

No, probably not, but it’s going to be 90%. Perfect. It’s going to be good enough. And you can always improve that in the future, but this is way easier than like, okay, I’ve already done all my work now. I need to find more time. To create a process from scratch and duplicate all my work. Don’t do that. Just record what you were already going to do.

For instance, I created a process for, you know, at one point we had done a campaign where we were doing like affiliates and stuff, and so we had to pay Philly it’s and I created a process for paying affiliates, not just like from scratch with extra time, but I was like, Oh, I need to pay affiliates. So I’m going to hit record.

Start recording my screen, talking to the microphone and say, okay, this is how you pay affiliates. I’m going to click this. I’m going to filter by this. And this is the date range, and this is the payout. And then I grabbed this number and I put it into this spreadsheet and I just recorded it as I did it.

It took a little bit longer than doing it without explaining, but not that much longer. So just, just keep that in mind. Like you don’t have to set aside a whole separate time, just record yourself doing the thing. So the easiest way would just be record yourself. Doing the thing. And then if you have extra time, when you have extra time, write an outline, like write a, write a little bullet list.

So you go back and you watch your screencast. And you’re like, what’s the first thing I do. Okay. Go to this panel in the dashboard link, click on affiliates, set the date range to this. And you’re just writing a list of steps. So in the future, when you’re like, I pretty much know how to do the whole thing, but what was that one part?

You can jump straight to the written. So just have that for yourself. Know how you’re going to create those processes. Okay. We’ve we’ve said some of this stuff before, I’m looking at my outline. If it’s in your head, it’s not a process. You don’t have a process unless it’s written down. What do you do about people not following the process?

Well, it may surprise you, but if people aren’t following the process, you have to patch the process. So like if they’re not following the process, part of the process needs to actually explicitly be follow the process. I know this sounds really weird, like, but, it helped me out down, like tell, tell me, you asked, asked me a question cause I know that doesn’t make sense, but, but, yeah.

Ask me a

Dan: [01:21:49] Do you mean that, like you got this checklist and you’re going to go through and people haven’t been completing steps 15 and 26. So instead you add a step to the beginning that says complete all the steps. Is that what you’re talking about? Can’t be

Sean: [01:22:03] Yeah. That, that wouldn’t work. That wouldn’t

Dan: [01:22:06] what is wrong with the process that causes people not to follow it?

Sean: [01:22:11] Hmm. This is good. Yeah. Now, now I’m wondering if I, even if I even knew. The answer feels like this is going deeper than, than what I thought. Okay. Here’s a, I don’t know if this is the solution, but here’s an idea that will work every time. If you connect a given process to the process by which the person doing the thing gets paid, they’ll do it.

Dan: [01:22:43] Right.

Sean: [01:22:46] So for instance, you could have like 10 check boxes and the person doesn’t do all the things. but the final check box involves like listing out the things you did for the steps in some other place. And that connects to another process. That’s like, make sure the person listed out all the things and if they did pay them, something like that, like it’s, it’s basically enforcing, it’s a, it’s a kind of accountability that connects to something they care about.

Dan: [01:23:22] Maybe that

Sean: [01:23:24] Poke holes in it.

Dan: [01:23:26] while the S it strikes me a little bit as, as bad as a bandaid, like the person’s not following the process. So use the biggest stick you have, which is their ability to pay their rent. To beat them into doing it. And, and I guess I want to, so I’m just going to ask more questions.

Cause I think we should consider this, you know, and maybe people in the check can, can tell us the

Sean: [01:23:48] Yeah. Well, Jeremy says the first rule is obey. All rules makes me think of those, those signs. On the highway. That’s like, you know, what is it like, observe warning signs or something, you know, it’s something like

Dan: [01:24:02] Right. Exactly. It’s like the people who need to hear that warning are, are looking at their phone. Don’t look at your phone while you drive. I want to ask, I wanna, I want us to answer this question. What are the things that cause people to not follow processes? I can give you a couple off the top of my head.

And then, you know, you, you can jump in with some more and again, people in the chat jump in with additional ones. Why wouldn’t somebody follow the process? I could imagine because the process is not, is not well-defined, so it’s not clear to them what they should be doing, but on the other hand, the process could be well-defined but poorly explained.

So there could be things that a person thinks are redundant. They don’t think they don’t understand how they connect to the larger outcome that they’re trying to achieve. And so they’re going through the process and they go, ah, I know that would come to this is to produce a video clip. I don’t really understand why I have to write 10 titles instead of six.

So whatever I’m I’ll write six is fine. And the real reason they’re not finishing their, they’re not completing the process properly. There is you, we, in this case, but like you, you haven’t explained to them well enough why it’s important. I think that might be, you got to start there before you start, worrying about how, how to dock their pay.

Sean: [01:25:22] think that I think you’re right. And there’s a lot of good things in what you said, and they need to understand why it’s important. They need to understand how it’s a part of the bigger process. But also it could be that your, your process is it’s, it has some issues. Maybe some of the steps are no longer relevant.

Like you wrote this a long time ago and then you change systems. And so now half of the steps are just like, Oh yeah, you should know to skip those. That’s not a good place to be because you’re just training people to skip steps and, and it’s really your fault. You know, you should take responsibility for that.

Like, Oh, I need to update this. So implicit in that is like, you got to check in with people. So you, you, you’ve got to ask them like, how is this going? are, are there, are there any things that don’t make sense? Are there things that don’t don’t seem like they apply or they’re a waste of time, like. Find out what, what really is going on here, you know, and it might surprise you, you might just be assuming, Oh, they just think they’re a hot shot and they know how to do it without following the process.

But maybe that’s not actually what going on. Maybe there’s a real reason that you would probably skip it if you were in their shoes. So just talking to them and learning about that can really help. another thing is just. I think assuming your process is actually good and the steps do make sense and people do need to follow them.

And someone is skipping important steps. And so the work that’s going out is not good. It’s not up to your quality standards. Having a checkpoint, is another way. This is just a form of an account of accountability. Having a checkpoint where someone is going to look over like. For instance, we have a process for producing this very podcast.

I’m going to hit stop on my recording. And then the file in Dropbox is accessible to people on the team and they will do all of the things with it. Right. and then what I’m going to do, and this could also be a manager, but they also know that like, I’m going to spot check it. Cause I care about this show.

I care about the quality personally. And so I’m going to check things. So I’m, I’m going to spot check it. And someone else is also going to provide a second pair of eyes. usually, you know, with anything that we do, we, we have this second pair of eyes policy where it’s like every, anything that goes out to a client, to the audience, whatever two pairs of eyes, two people look at it.

So this creates accountability where like, One of the things that we do, you know how we say, if you want to find the show notes, you go to Sean the number is. So for this episode is four 99. That’s going to take you to the show notes will someone has to create that redirect. And so here’s the thing, Dan, when I go to like, just double check this episode, the day before it goes out, I just use Sean 99 as the fast way to get to the episode.

And if they didn’t make that it’ll be broken and I’ll know right away. So that’s one of those little steps. That’s like, you could skip it, but you’re going to be found out every single time. And so part of, part of the issue may be you don’t have second pair of eyes and there’s no, no accountability. And so the person skipping can get away with the skipping.

Whereas if there was second pair of eyes, if they were, it was accountability, they know if I skip this, they’re going to find it. And I’m going to have to do the work again, which is actually worse than just doing the work to begin with. I know we like to not have to need accountability, but the reality is we just made it and, and I’ve talked about it before public partner or personal.

usually it’s the first two. Most people have not super well developed that third one where it’s like, when you say you’ll do a thing you follow through and you do with it or you do it. So usually it’s like public for me. Why do I do this podcast? Am I accountable to anyone? Well, technically like. You and I have this on our calendar, so I know Dan’s going to be there to record, so I better show up.

But also if I just decided not to, it’s not like you were gonna hold me to it. You’d be like, okay, we’re not doing it. So like the stronger form for me is public accountability. If I tell people, Hey, I’m going to record a five part series. Well, I want to be consistent with that. It wouldn’t reflect well on me.

If I got three, four episodes into a five part series and stopped. So as much as we like to just not need accountability, it’s important.

Dan: [01:29:51] Yeah. And you talk about the layers of the public, private and personal accountability. And in this case, The process, you’re kind of creating all of them because there’s that maybe it’s partner accountability where you know that someone else is going to look and make sure you did the work. But the other step that we mentioned, which is making sure people understand how a given part of the process is integral to the result we’re trying to achieve.

I think also helps them develop the personal accountability because they want, they want to do a good job. They want to deliver the result. And so it might be tempting to think. this one thing I could probably get away with not doing it, but if they, if they’re thinking in terms of, but actually the outcome that we’re all working towards depends on doing this, you know, that that’s, that is its own form of accountability as well.

So then those two things, when you layer them on top of each other, make ’em make a stronger right. A stronger rope or chain, or I can’t remember what the appropriate analogy is for the accountability thing. I think it’s a rope cause you put the strands around each other.

Sean: [01:30:58] Yeah, you’re right. So final thing. I don’t know. Well, maybe, maybe final thing. Do we want to get into, like, I dunno if software or I don’t feel like

Dan: [01:31:13] I think that’s a, that’s a bonus for the after show maybe.

Sean: [01:31:16] you go stick around. Okay. Okay. When should you create a process? So a process is a list of steps that help you, perform a certain task, whatever it is that you do, writing a blog, post, hiring someone, putting out a newsletter, uploading a video, preparing for a podcast.

You need processes so you can repeat success, avoid failure, but you have to have it written down. Or it’s not a process. If it’s in your head, it’s not a process. You don’t have a process unless it’s written down. When should you create a process, create a process. If it will be done more than once, if it’s currently also being done by someone other than yourself, it will ever possibly be done by someone other than yourself.

If you’ve ever made a mistake, if you’ve ever missed or forgotten a step, if you’ve ever spent energy, trying to remember a detail or step. And finally, if anyone else is involved and the way I like to end it is when in doubt, create a process, it’s basically create a process, like just create

Dan: [01:32:34] what, when should you create a process? Yes,

Sean: [01:32:37] everything, because this all comes down. This whole idea around creating processes for your work all comes down to the fact that you should not use your brain to remember things. Don’t use your brain to remember anything. Why? Because you forget things.

And also because your brain is better utilized as processing power, not as longterm storage, use your brain to think not remember we have computers that will remember things forever and, and. Backups and, and, you know, cloud storage and stuff like it’s, it’s, it’s not going to be lost. So outsource your remembering of things to computers, don’t try and remember things.

So the way you do your work, the way you do anything is a process you want to capture that process, this great family recipe that you make, and it’s super awesome and you make, and it’s super awesome and you make, and. Something was off this time. What? You, you don’t know what was off cause you didn’t have the checklist.

He didn’t follow a process. You can’t pass that off when you’re sick, but the family wants that meal. No one else can make it. Cause it’s in grandma’s head. You don’t have a process unless it’s written down. Write everything down. Don’t try to remember anything. It frees up your mind. Your mind will be clear.

You’ll have a clear mind. Imagine having a clear mind. It’s amazing. You can think and think about things you can think through things. You can process things when you’re not trying to remember things. So when you have processes, you can turn those into repeatable projects. So things that you do regularly.

Should be projects based on processes. And those projects can be repeatable. Sometimes the different project management system that you use can even automate the repeating of processes, or maybe you just clone the project template or something like that. And you have to click a button. That’s fine. It’s still a lot easier.

You know, like having a checklist for doing this show here, instead of trying to remember everything, there’s a lot of details. I need to start recording the video. I need to start recording the audio. I need to start streaming the audio. I need to start streaming the video. I need to make sure I connect with Dan on the video call.

I need to have my outline open here. I need to have this open. Yeah. They’re like, don’t try and remember all of the things. Those things have a checklist. Then then my mind is clear the times where I don’t have a checklist. And I’m trying to remember all of these things. I get in a weird head space where it’s difficult to get into the mode of doing the show and delivering this information to you because my mind is caught up in technical land and it’s caught up in technical.

And because I don’t have a repeatable process now, sometimes software can help you here out of the scope of this show. But, You can even have things like macros on your computer that automatically set up all these windows and put them on the right parts of your screen and click the right places and start recording.

Like you can get really fancy with that stuff. but, but you know, at the very least have something that you can follow that is systematized and repeatable. Any of these last things in our outline that. That you want to cover Dan? Or do you want to just skip to questions,

Dan: [01:36:10] I feel like it’s well, I think like, I feel like it’s well covered.

Sean: [01:36:16] Michael? And the chat says it took me about five years to get my grandmother to show me two recipes.

Dan: [01:36:23] And now you’re going to share them with all of us. I assume Michael. Now it’s okay. You don’t have to share. Those are family secrets, Sean. I think, you know, we, we really covered almost everything in here, but there was, there was one other question I had, which is okay. Create a process for this thing that you do.

And now you’re going to get someone else to do it. How do you deal with knowing that the person that you delegate it to, they’re just not going to do it as well as you will like. And then how do you make sure your quality standards stay, where they need to be? Once you’ve handed something off.

Sean: [01:37:01] The way I deal with this is, and this is going to be difficult for you to internalize at first, but this is, this is what will help you get there. The realization. The w the way I deal with the fact that the things I delegate to other people won’t be done as well as I would have done them is by knowing this, when I delegate one of the 20 things on my plate to someone else, not only can they eventually do it as well as me, but they can surpass me because that one thing is their entire focus.

They don’t have all of the other things I have. So this is superhero syndrome, like I’ve talked about before, but you’ve just got to realize it. It just makes a ton of sense. If one person is able to focus on one thing, they can do it better than someone who’s trying to focus on 20 things. You can’t even really focus on 20 things.

So the point at which I delegate and kind of hand off the reins, right? There’s this period of training where you do it with a person. You create the process first, then you bring them on, you follow the process with them, you do it with them, but then there’s a point where you need to let go of the reigns and say, this is yours.

Now you do this. And there’s still some, some supervision and some oversight, not oversight. What’s the word?

Dan: [01:38:29] You’re checking in, like you’re. Yeah.

Sean: [01:38:31] Yeah. There’s there’s, check-ins, there’s reviews, things like that, but at some point you have to let them do the thing, let the bird fly, jump out of the nest, you know, flap your wings and fly and, and it’s, it’s going to be a little bit rough, but you don’t want to wait until they’re a hundred percent perfect.

That’s going to take way too long. I like to think in terms of, well, you’ve heard me talk about 90%. Perfect. As a perfectionist, if you are a perfectionist, a good threshold for shipping things and by shipping, I mean, putting them out into the world is 90% perfect. Because as a perfectionist, your standards are unrealistically high.

They’re too high. They’re unrealistic and you don’t, you don’t put things out there because they’re never good enough. So 90% perfect is a good threshold, but for delegating, I like to let go of the reigns at 80%. Perfect because they, they need to do the thing. It’s going to take way too long to get them to 90%, let alone a hundred percent.

Perfect. So remember, if you are a perfectionist, if you really care about quality, you’re already doing better than most people. There’s a ton of people and a ton of businesses and companies and brands and whatever else out there who don’t care. And they’re actually winning because they’re just shipping more stuff, which is a shame.

So just realize if you care at all, you’re already ahead of the curve. So like let go of the reigns at 80% and then work with them, continue to work with them while giving them autonomy to get to 90%. Does that make sense? And then from that point, the sole focus alone that they have on this thing that you could never have because you have 20 things, we’ll take them beyond that 90%.

So, whereas when you did this thing yourself, it was 90%. Perfect. And you could do 20 things at somewhere around 90%. Perfect. They can each do this thing at 95%. Perfect. 96%. Perfect. 97%. Perfect.

Dan: [01:40:33] Josh said something in the chat here. I want to bring in. He said you never know, but you just might discover somebody who does a thing better than you. So that’s part of it, right? That the focus we’ll help them do it. But the other thing he reminded me of a really important concept, which is one of the keys to being a good manager leader employer is that you find people who are.

Better than you at the thing you want them to do. So for example, you know, you might be good at editing video, so you’re going to go hire someone and try to train them to be good at editing video. You know, it’s even better find someone who’s way better than you in editing video and make them your video editor.

Right? Cause again, your, your job in this. In the context in which we’re talking about all of this, like building an agency, running a business, your job is to be a business owner, not a doer of the things that are required. Find the best people you can to do those things. Like ideally they are better than you.

You know, like if you, if you’re hiring someone to manage other people, find someone who has more management experience than you do, you might’ve just been managing. Find someone who can, you know, keep a pencil on their desk better than you can. You might have just been managing people, because that’s what, that’s what it requires now.

But like find someone who’s actually experienced at it, who can do it. That’s actually like a really good point that, that Joshua made, you know, like there are people out there who are better than you at things. Those are the people you want. You want those, you want to hire those people.

Sean: [01:42:05] It’s difficult when you have a superhero syndrome. Cause it’s a little bit of an ego thing,

Dan: [01:42:13] Yeah, it is.

Sean: [01:42:15] but I

Dan: [01:42:16] And especially if, when you have a brand you identify with too, right? Cause you’re like, well, if someone else makes the special cake, then you know who, and now the cake isn’t special anymore. Cause it was, it was my cake.

Sean: [01:42:29] as the, as the famous creed song, Went you’ve created your own prison.

Dan: [01:42:37] And suddenly it’s the 1990s again.

Sean: [01:42:40] It’s probably a good time to wrap up.

Dan: [01:42:43] Thanks. So Sean, where can people go to find us online?

Sean: [01:42:46] You can go to Sean and sign up for membership. You get access to all of our courses and training, including hiring bootcamp, which talks all about creating processes all about delegating, all about what we discussed with assignee, deadline dependency. I show you inside our processes, how we create those for various things like producing a podcast episode.

As well as delegating hiring systems scaling, who is the first person you hire, what should they do? What should they be responsible for? Should they just do a bunch of miscellaneous things? Should they be more specialized cover? All of that inside hiring bootcamp, that’s free for members as is all of our other courses and training and programs.

And you also get access to the community where you can tune in live to the shows. You hear us talking to people in the chat. That’s a that’s what’s going on there. You can be there. You can ask questions, get answers. Live. We’d love to have you inside the community. Thanks for becoming a member and for supporting the show.

Dan, where can people find you online?

Dan: [01:43:49] Well, you can check out my

Sean: [01:43:55] Good show, sir.

Dan: [01:43:57] Yes. Good show sir.

Sean: [01:43:59] more to go.

Dan: [01:44:01] Just one.

Sean: [01:44:44] Are you looking for that pencil? You dropped

Dan: [01:44:47] Well, yeah, I didn’t want to run over it with my chair and break it.

Sean: [01:44:51] Suzie. We want to talk about software or anything.

Dan: [01:44:55] I don’t know, man. It’s such, it’s such a rabbit hole.

Sean: [01:44:58] Okay. Just briefly. I want to make people aware of the magic that is Zapier. So this is a little bit nerdy, but just for those who aren’t, naturally inclined towards this type of thing, you just want to tell people what to possible. Dan, sometimes just knowing what’s possible is helpful, but Zapier is something that can connect your apps together.

Now. You know, if you know what an API is, it uses API APIs, software hooks that are basically your project management system, let’s say may have an API or a software hooks that allows Zapier to connect to your project management system and say, Hey, when this thing’s ha, when this thing happens, I can do all of these other things.

And so what, what happens is like you can, I’ll give you an example. You can connect Zapier to your eCommerce platform. However, you make sales, whatever, whatever form you, you take payment, you know, it could be woo commerce. It could be Shopify, it could be Squarespace. It could be any of these eCommerce platforms.

You can connect savior to that and do all kinds of things. For instance, you can automatically create a Google doc. Right. So on the other side of things, you connect Zapier to other apps like Google docs or Slack or you know, anything. And so there’s so many possibilities, so many things can connect to Xavier that you can have almost any one thing happened in one app.

Do almost any one thing in another app. So imagine when a client purchases your service package. Automatically post a message in Slack with their information automatically create a Google doc with an outline with fill in the blanks automatically filled for your first strategy. Call automatically create a new project for this client in your project management system automatically assign those tasks to the people that will be responsible for handling fulfillment for this client.

Automatically sends you an email notification automatically send you a push notification automatically send your assistant a text message. It’s pretty incredible. and this is, this is not to do a deep dive or anything, but just in case people aren’t aware, or they’re not thinking about these things, just realize you can have just about anything, kick off a series of steps.

In almost any other app. And it’s really, really powerful. So again, outside of the scope of this episode, but, something to think about, you know, my favorite, my favorite phrase on this topic is if you do it more than once automate it, I mean, obviously we’re assuming you’re doing things that are working.

You know, if you’re doing something that’s not working, obviously that creates a problem. But if what you’re doing is working, meaning when a client pays you. You make a project, you make a Google doc, you make a Slack channel, you do this, you do that. And you, you have this system where you do this fulfillment for a client and that’s working for you.

If you’re doing any of those things more than once automated it’s possible. Dan, any thoughts?

Dan: [01:48:31] No, I just want to go play with Zapier now.

Sean: [01:48:33] know, I know

is at the end of the after show,